Dr. Adrienne Wilk- If Learners Do Not Feel Safe They Cannot Learn

Learners don’t fail in simulation because the mannequin is “too real” or the scenario is “too hard.” They shut down when they don’t feel safe. We sit down with Adrienne Wilk, CHSE, CHSOS, a nurse educator, simulation leader, and nationally recognized healthcare simulation expert, to unpack what psychological safety actually looks like in nursing simulation and clinical education, and how we can hold high standards without tearing people down.

Adrienne shares her origin story as a new educator staring at empty beds and boxes of mannequin parts, then finding the mentors who helped her build a strong foundation rooted in evidence based practice. From prebriefing and shared expectations to modeling respectful communication, she explains how psychological safety supports better debriefing, stronger reflection, and ultimately better patient safety. Along the way, we talk about Debriefing for Meaningful Learning, the difference between feedback and debrief, and why communication skills are a core simulation competency.

We also shift into the world of simulation center accreditation through her experience as a Society for Simulation in Healthcare site reviewer. Adrienne reframes accreditation as advocacy and mentorship, not “gotcha,” and explains how a well documented review can help programs make the case for resources, staffing, and sustainable growth. To keep it real, she brings stories from the sim lab, including a hilariously unforgettable ostomy spill and the universal truth that technology will fail at the worst time.

If you’re a simulation educator, sim ops specialist, or emerging simulation leader, you’ll leave with practical ways to build trust fast and improve step by step. Subscribe, share this with a colleague, and leave a review so more educators can find the show.

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Welcome And Guest Introduction

Disclaimer/ intro 0:00

The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of anyone at Innovative Simsolutions or our sponsors. Welcome to The Sim Cafe, a podcast produced by the team at Innovative Him Solutions and edited by Shelly Houser. I join our host, Deb Tauber, and co-host Jared Jeffries, as they sit down with subject matter experts from across the globe how to reimagine clinical education and the use of emulation. So pour yourself a cup of relaxation, sit back and tune in and learn something new from The Sim Cafe.

Deb Tauber 0:54

And today we are very fortunate to have Adrien ne Wilk. She serves as a nurse educator, a simulation leader, and nationally recognized healthcare simulation expert. She works at the nursing school at Austin P State University, where she develops innovative simulation experiences that prepare students and healthcare professionals for real-world practice. She holds her CHSE as well as her CHSOS. And thank you so much, Adrienne, for being a guest today. We're so thrilled to have you. Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit more about yourself?

Finding Simulation Through Mentorship

Dr. Wilk 1:33

Sure. Well, thank you for having me. I'm excited. I've listened to so many of these podcasts before, so I'm really excited to get to be a part of it. So my journey in simulation and background starts very similar to what a lot of other simulationists had, in that I was teaching, I was a new educator, and was given a health assessment course to teach. And when I went to my assigned room, it was just a classroom with empty beds. And a colleague said, Hey, I think there's some like boxes with mannequin parts down in the basement. And so I ventured down there and found a bunch of exactly what they said mannequin parts that had not been assembled, hadn't been used. They had an excellent grant writer that funded all of this stuff and fun toys, but nobody was using them, nobody knew how, and neither did I. So that was back late 2011, early 2012. And so shout out to my nursing faculty where I went to nursing school. They were one of the initial 10 sites that were part of the National Council of State Boards of Nursing landmark simulation study. And I had no clue. Certainly couldn't call myself a simulationist yet, but I reached out to Nancy Hussen and Kristen Zolkowski, who were my angel mentors at that time, saying, Hey, I'm a I'm a new educator. I have this stuff, I don't know what to do with it. And they walked me through the process of just really from square one in teaching me how to do simulation, how to do it the right way, and why we do it that way. So I was extremely fortunate in my start in simulation to have such a strong foundation. And since then it's just been mentor after mentor helping me along the way.

Deb Tauber 3:35

Right. And that's really cool that you were at one of the 10 schools that was in involved in the study.

Dr. Wilk 3:42

Yeah, so I wasn't a student at the time, but just getting to go and observe because I am from Pennsylvania and it was Lancaster Institute for Health Education at the time, but they they opened their arms, their lab, the the faculty, they they allowed me to train under them and gave me all the resources I needed to be successful in bringing up future healthcare providers in my area.

Deb Tauber 4:10

So you found your people.

Speaker 1 4:12

Oh, yes, absolutely.

Deb Tauber 4:14

I

Psychological Safety That Actually Works

Deb Tauber 4:15

think psychological safety is real big for you. So why don't you talk a little bit about psychological safety and how you incorporate it? It's also, I'm very passionate about psychological safety for learners as well, just because they're so vulnerable.

Dr. Wilk 4:30

Absolutely. So to me, everybody has an idea of what psychological safety means. And you know, one of the things we're trying to do as simulationists is kind of have a shared vocabulary. But just so I can kind of contextualize what that means, for me, psychological safety is about culture, is about just that that shared knowledge and experience. And it's not just psychological safety for the learners, but for the faculty, the educators, the sim ops, everybody needs to feel psychologically safe, not just to come in and to learn, but to really digest and move forward. Again, both as the professional on one side of the sim room and and as the learner in the other, because if you don't feel safe, you're not going to learn anything. If you don't learn anything, you're not going to improve patient safety. And that's at the end of the day what we all want to do. So I am a firm believer that you can have high expectations, but uphold those expectations in a safe and kind way. So I really understand what it is like to be on the learner's side. I did an excellent simulation intensive. It was a week-long intensive where I was the learner learning about sim, and they put us through simulation unexpectedly. And then also we we wrote sims and then performed each other's Sims. And man, is that scary. And so I try to remind myself over and over again what that feels like. And so, how do you get it? Right? That's that's the question. How do you maintain a psychologically safe environment? And I think people need to know what to expect. So that's where setting the stage, here's what's going to happen. You can't just throw them into sim anymore. And that's kind of what we used to do, or what was done to us when we were students. And we we just know evidence shows us that that's not necessarily the best way uh for our learners to retain information. Have that common goal, that shared goal, both for faculty, educators, and students, and then also role model to them how we should talk to one another. And there's a lot of individuals and organizations out there that you can find so many resources out there on how to have those conversations, how to provide feedback. What is what is feedback versus debrief? What are those two things? How are they similar? How are they different? And really just how to talk to one another. And so, yeah, psych safety, I I could probably give you a whole dissertation on it. I'm long-winded because I'm passionate about it, but that really is one of the most important things. Doesn't matter how good the sim is, how expensive the mannequin is, how great the actor is your SP is. If they don't feel safe, they're not going to learn anything.

Deb Tauber 7:38

Oh, I couldn't agree more. I think it's about, you know, creating that safe space for learners to feel like they can trust you and tell you what they really were thinking. Because, you know, one way or another, they're either going to repeat what they did or they're not.

Dr. Wilk 7:56

Yeah, absolutely. And if they're safe, they're going to be vulnerable and they're going to tell you things. And as an educator, you can really use that as a way to critique your own teaching or your own, you know, hey, let's look at this curriculum. Why didn't the majority of the learners going through this sim pick up on this or that? So it's a really great mirror to show you how well you are preparing your learners to come in. And if you take it that way, take it as your own little reflection and criticism, it improves your practice as an educator.

Deb Tauber 8:36

Right. And if you can get them to actually tell you what you could do better the next time, that's the only way you're going to get any better.

Dr. Wilk 8:44

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Feedback Versus Debrief And Expectations

Deb Tauber 8:47

Now we're going to switch streams here a little bit and we'll talk a little bit about accreditation. And your service is with the Society for Simulation and Healthcare, and your service is a site reviewer. So why don't you tell us a little bit about that and and how much you enjoy it?

Dr. Wilk 9:05

Absolutely. So back in 2019, I was working for an accredited organization, and one of my mentors at the Society for Simulation and Healthcare encouraged me to apply to be a site reviewer. So one of the requirements is that you have to work at an organization that's accredited in order to be a site reviewer. And I thought, well, this was an absolutely eye-opening experience, an opportunity to get to walk through that process of writing your document and really doing that deep dive into your own program. I thought, hey, what a great opportunity to learn more and to grow and to meet other pillars in the sim world, than to volunteer my time and become a reviewer. And I am so glad that I took that leap, fought that imposter syndrome, and clicked the submit button to apply because that act, that that leap of faith to say, okay, I can do this, that's been a tremendous asset in my own professional growth and learning. The saying, if you've seen one Sim Center, you've seen one Sim Center. And I've met so many amazing people who have so many amazing ideas and processes and outcomes. It's just never-ending learning for me.

Deb Tauber 10:34

It's just a real honor to have the opportunity to visit a site. And just like the learners, they're very anxious when you arrive. And how can you create a psychologically safe environment for them to share what wonderful things they're doing?

Dr. Wilk 10:53

Yes. Honestly, by the end of the day, my cheeks hurt so bad from smiling because I am so conscious of my own body language and my eye contact. And just how do I want to be perceived by the site? You know, am I a friendly person that afterwards, if they see me at a conference, theyYou know, am I a friendly person that afterwards, if they see me at a conference, they

Accreditation And The Site Reviewer Role

Dr. Wilk 11:15

can come up to me and say, hey, Adrian, it was been a couple years, but here's what we're doing now. Like that's the kind of relationship and rapport that I want to leave them with. I don't want them to feel as if we're coming in there with a fine-toothed comb to nitpick every little thing that they could possibly improve on. Obviously, our job and what our goal is, is to improve every program that we review, but really just to also provide a future framework for mentorship and relationship building so that doesn't matter what program you're at, you're producing just excellent high-quality learners.

Deb Tauber 11:57

Right. I agree. And I also feel like when I'm doing a review, it's not like gotcha. It's, you know, we've got you. How can we support you to help you grow? How can, you know, we've seen some different things. Are there areas that you want to improve on and you might have questions about? We've got you.

Dr. Wilk 12:17

Absolutely. And that's the beauty of accreditation, is we are simulationists first and foremost. So we are your advocates. So even if we do find areas that could be strengthened or enhanced, and we write that in our report and we note that that is a tool for that site, then to take back to whomever needs to see it, be it administration or higher ups in the C-suite, and say, hey, this is what the society is recommending. This is where we need to go, or these are the personnel lines we need to get. And so really being transparent with us about your your obstacles is an asset because we can then support that and document that to help you get what you need to most efficiently and effectively run your program.

Deb Tauber 13:09

Excellent. Thank you for that. Yeah. Now let's get into a couple fun personal questions. Sure. All right. What's been your most what's been your most memorable simulation experience?

Dr. Wilk 13:23

Oh boy, one of my earlier ones, I always talk about this one. I I love to make things as realistic and as possible. And sometimes it's to my detriment in terms of cleanup. But I remember very early on in my sim career, students had a patient that they needed to care for. And the patient had an ostomy. And that was not the main point of the SIM, but that was what the learner felt most comfortable with. And when they went to empty the ostomy, instead of unclipping the bottom of the device and emptying it into a canister, they separated the bag from the wafer and were walking across the room and the clip fell off. And I had put, you know, the coffee ground liquid with the simulated smells, and it went all over the floor, it went all over their shoes, and just the sheer look of, I don't know what it was like horror, then disbelief, and then just hysterical laughter. It was, it was one of the most memorable days because I thought, you know, they they stayed in character, they stayed in role, but they also managed that with humor and humility and kind of role modeled what you do when you make a mistake in healthcare. And we talked about, you know, what do you do when things go wrong in front of our patients or or that sort of thing? So uh I still give that example to students during orientation to this day, just to let them know that errors can and will happen, and you're gonna learn from them, and that's why we do what we do.

Deb Tauber 15:11

Right. No, that's a good story. How do they maintain their composure, right? How do you are graceful under fire?

Dr. Wilk 15:19

Yes. We all just kind of held our breath and waited to see how they respond. And um, I think the the disbelief was the smell, they weren't expecting the simulated smells. So when that ostomy device opened up and they got a whiff of the contents, they were surprised. But uh it was a win for Sim that day. It was a win.

Deb Tauber 15:42

Very fun story. Now, have you ever had a mannequin or simulator do something that you didn't expect?

Dr. Wilk 15:47

Oh boy, a mannequin or simulator

Memorable Sim Story With Humor

Dr. Wilk 15:50

do something. Well, other than just, you know, turn off on you. Um I have not had that experience too terribly often in my tenure as a simulationist. The biggest thing is just technology not working. You know, it doesn't matter which vendor, which mannequin, which whatever. It's all technology. And as I like to give my students the example, think to the last time you moved and got a new router, and then you had to, you know, hook it up to your modem and try to get your TV to work and then your laptop to work. Now multiply that by about 50, because that's how many connections we have here in the Sim Center. So if something goes down, think back to the last time you had to call and troubleshoot your router at home.

Deb Tauber 16:41

That's a great analogy. Yes. Yeah, yes, yeah. I'm gonna borrow that one. That is a great analogy.

Dr. Wilk 16:48

Because everybody's like, yeah, it never works. I'm like, right, right. So no, I I can't say that I've ever had a mannequin malfunction and do something it shouldn't, other than just disconnect arbitrarily. Disconnect.

Deb Tauber 17:01

Right, right. Let's try a couple rapid fire questions here. This is come kind of something new I wanted to try.

Dr. Wilk 17:08

OK

Deb Tauber 17:09

So rapid fire, high fidelity or low fidelity?

Dr. Wilk 17:13

Neither. Well, high fidelity, but I would say in terms of modality, hybrid. I like using task trainers strapped to actors.

Deb Tauber 17:20

Good, good, good response. Love it. Okay, in situ or center-based?

Dr. Wilk 17:26

Uh most of my experience has been center-based. So I'd say that's my comfort. But in terms of learning and professional development, I need more in situ.

Deb Tauber 17:35

Yeah, I think in situ is very cool too.

Dr. Wilk 17:37

Yes. Yeah. Yes. And the safety piece is important.

Deb Tauber 17:40

Yep. Yep. Favorite debriefing model.

Dr. Wilk 17:44

Oh, debriefing for meaningful learning. So that again was what was used during the National Council study. That was what I initially learned. And Dr. Dry First has been a mentor in various capacities throughout my tenure as a simulationist. So I am a tried and true hardcore DML girl.

Deb Tauber 18:06

There you go. I love that. I love that. And that is a great debriefing model.

Dr. Wilk 18:11

Yes.

Deb Tauber 18:12

All right. Coffee before simulation or after?

Dr. Wilk 18:17

Before and after. We got the cleanup afterwards. So you need that jump start to say, all right, let's tear down and set up for the next day.

Deb Tauber 18:30

Yep. Yep. What is one word that you think describes the future of simulation?

Dr. Wilk 18:36

Oh. Dynamic, in that it's ever changing and it's different. You know, no two sim centers are alike, no two learner types are alike. Nothing is one size fits all. And so that's both a good and a bad thing in terms of good and that we're constantly growing, changing, learning, bad, and that there's always a learning curve, but that's the exciting thing. So I would just say dynamic.

Deb Tauber 19:04

Yep. What's one book

Tech Failures And Rapid Fire Picks

Deb Tauber 19:07

you think every simulation educator should read?

Dr. Wilk 19:10

Oh, Crucial Conversations. Okay, good. I know it's not even a simulated book. Going back to our beginning of the conversation, I am a firm believer that you can have high expectations and uphold high standards, but still have conversations that do not leave people feeling demeaned or talked down to. And it is a skill. Some people are just born having a little bit more competence in having those difficult conversations. And then others of us, we we have to work on it. That skill is something that needs to be invested in and developed. So I don't know how one improves without having difficult or crucial conversations. So I would definitely say crucial conversations.

Deb Tauber 19:59

No, that's a great book. And I didn't I didn't have that on my list as a simulation book, but I think you're very correct to state that.

Dr. Wilk 20:07

Yes. Well, and especially for us who are newer sim leaders or emerging SIM leaders, for me, if if I was good as a nurse, the expectation was, well, you'll be a good nurse educator. Well, if you're a good educator, you'll be a good simulationist. If you're a good simulationist, well, now you can coordinate or manage or direct, but we don't necessarily get the leadership training. We get content-specific stuff, but we don't get that more nuanced leadership type training. And oftentimes we are left to seek out um leadership, continuing ed or professional development on our own. So it's a cheap one. I highly recommend it. It's on Audible or wherever. I like to listen to books.

Leadership Skills And Crucial Conversations

Dr. Wilk 20:50

So yeah, that's what I would recommend.

Deb Tauber 20:53

Thanks. Now, what's one piece of advice you wish someone had given you at the beginning of your career?

Dr. Wilk 20:59

Hmm. Let me see. Not to be cliche, but probably one of my favorite music artists is Billy Joel. And one of my favorite songs of his, one of the opening lyrics, a slow down, you crazy child. And so you don't have to accomplish everything right away. And I think that might be some of the issues with individuals, particularly newer simulationists, that feel like, well, maybe I'm not ready to go up for accreditation, or maybe I'm not ready to do this. You know, it's okay. Slow down, take a breath, take a beat, and work on things little by little. It doesn't all have to be done. It doesn't all have to be perfect. It's still getting better. As long as you're improving little by little, bit by bit, then you're making progress. And that's okay. It doesn't have to all come at one time. So now that sounds a little cliche, but no, that's excellent.

Deb Tauber 22:05

That's excellent advice. I mean, I think, you know, just like we'll circle back to, you know, you found your people here, and we're all here to to help new simulation simulationists, learn and grow and help expand our field and move our move this wonderful field forward.

Dr. Wilk 22:25

Yeah. And we love to share. And that can be overwhelming for a new person. Like, you know, you don't need to know all 10 healthcare simulation standards of best practice like the back of your hand by next week. Pick one and start working your way through it. That that's how you you get better. And so just take it step by step. Find a mentor.

Deb Tauber 22:47

Find a mentor, right? Now, thank you so much for this interview and this opportunity. Is there anything else that you'd like to leave our listeners with?

Dr. Wilk 22:58

Laugh at yourself. Laughter is the best medicine. And so even the pillars in the sim world and the queens and kings of simulation, as I refer to to some of those big names, have made mistakes. So just don't be afraid to laugh at yourself. Share your successes, share your struggles. Find find your people, find your

Slow Down Advice And Closing

Dr. Wilk 23:18

mentor, and just strive to do a little bit better each day. That's it. That's all we can do.

Deb Tauber 23:24

Thank you. Thank you so much for this time and happy simulating.

Disclaimer/ intro 23:36

Thanks for joining us here at The Sim Cafe. We hope you enjoyed. Visit us at www.innovative simsolutions.com and be sure to hit that like and subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Innovative Sim Solutions is your one stop shop for your simulation needs. A turnkey solution.