The Sim Cafe~

Shaping Change With Simulation with Sharon Marie Weldon

• Deb Tauber • Season 3 • Episode 116

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Discalimer/ Beaker Health/ Intro:

The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of anyone at Innovative Sim Solutions or our sponsors. This week's podcast is brought to you by Beaker Health. Beaker Health is a user-generated and peer-reviewed community educational platform designed for health care organizations. We let your community connect and engage with one another freely and efficiently. Beaker Health, where dissemination and measuring impact comes easily. Welcome to The Sim Cafe, a podcast produced by the team at Innovative Sim Solutions and edited by Shelly Houser. Join our host, Deb Tauber and co-host Jerrod Jeffries, as they sit down with subject matter experts from across the globe to reimagine clinical education and the use of simulation. So pour yourself a cup of relaxation, sit back, tune in and learn something new from The Sim Cafe.

Deb Tauber:

I'm your host, Deb Tauber, and co-host Jerrod Jeffries. And today we are honored to welcome Sharon Marie Weldon, a visionary guest. Thank you for being a guest. And uh why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?

Sharon Weldon:

Thanks, Deb. Thanks for having me. Very exciting. Okay, what to tell about myself? Well, I'm a nurse and I'm professor in healthcare simulation workforce development. And I just about to become ASPI, an ASP of IH, so that's in the UK, uh, president. And that's the Association for Simulated Practice in Healthcare. And I mean, I've had lots of different roles in healthcare and simulation. It's probably maybe I'll tell you a bit about the story if you want.

Jerrod Jeffries:

Please do.

Sharon Weldon:

That sound good? Yeah. Okay. So it's quite a fairly long one, but I think it's quite interesting anyway. But when I was 16 years old, and this is how I got into healthcare in the first place, actually. So I was 16 years old, I was wrongly diagnosed with a rare form of bone cancer called osteosarcoma. And um, I was very unwell. I was just about to leave school to go at the time what the setup in the UK was to go to college, where you do your A levels, which is before university. And they couldn't, what I had at the time, they couldn't treat in the place I was from, so I had to go to London. And I was really quite unwell. Um, and then eventually they removed the tumour in my arm and they realized that it wasn't the osteosarcoma, but they weren't sure what kind of tumour it was. And and I started to get better. So I'd had months and months in hospital and then eventually started to get better. Missed my first year of college, but I thought I can start again the next year. And then just as I was about to go into the next year, uh, some big lumps started to appear on my arm again, and I was really concerned that it was back and ended up back in hospital. And it turns out I had something called um osteomyitis, which is a really bad bone inflection, and then a swab had been left in my arm from the operation to remove the tumour. Yes, so they found the swab, they removed it, and the bone was in a really bad state. So I had to have these beads. They hadn't used them at the time since World War II in shrapnel wounds, but it's like a pearl necklace and it's full of antibiotics, and they wrap them inside the bone and then they pull them out slowly. And so I spent months and months in hospital on these different Ivy antibiotics trying to save my arm essentially. So I only lost my arm twice in the space of two years, um, spent huge amounts of time in hospital and missed college for a second year. So I didn't have any lay levels to get into university. And I wasn't sure what I wanted to do at that point, or it was a really difficult time. And all my friends were kind of, you know, going off living their lives. I was 18 by the time, well, no, I wasn't. It was I was 17, getting close to my 18th birthday, and I was just getting better. And I was thinking, like, what am I gonna do? Everyone else is going off to university, I can't go to university, or they're going off to work. And I just felt like I needed to do something radical. And so um, someone, I don't know who to this day, brought me in uh a world an atlas and a book about just kind of people who were taking off traveling and not planning it too much and just taking whatever jobs and opportunities came their way. And then I looked at this map and I looked where the UK was and I looked for the furthest country I could find. And I what I saw at the time was New Zealand. And so I just decided, right, I'm gonna go there. And it might think, well, New Zealand, you know, they speak English. I didn't even know that. I was so naive. I had no idea. I just picked it as a country, and I remember my parents coming to see me and I said, I as soon as I'm out of this hospital, I'm going there. And they were like, What? What are you doing? So I came out of hospital, and three weeks after my 18th birthday, I got on a one-way flight on my own to New Zealand, having no idea what I was going to do. Um, and I got to the other side of the world, and I remember the flight was horrific. I'd never flown that long in my life. Um, I think it was almost by the time I did the stop, Stephanie, 30 hours or something. And I got to the other side and ended up staying in um this like five-star hotel because that's what I booked myself into, not sure what to do, or and then realized I was just with like a lot of business people. And there I was, 18 years old on the other side of the world of all these business people not knowing what I was doing. And I felt quite lonely, but I didn't want to. The flight was so bad, I thought I can't get back on that flight. I've got to make the most of this. And so eventually I figured out backpackers and I started talking to people and I met people. And then that was where things changed, and I just started having a wonderful time. I was meeting people from all over the world, and I basically from then on spent four and a half years backpacking all around the world. Um, and the harder and more hard-to-reach place it was, the more I walked to go. And so started off with fairly easy countries working, doing fruit picking, bar work, uh administrative work, and then eventually ended up trekking in the um the Simeon Mountains in Ethiopia, for example, and sitting on cattle truck across in northern Kenya or or up near the Tibetan border and all sorts of kind of amazing experiences, um, and really got a great understanding for the world and really embraced life, did all sorts of crazy things, uh, skydiving, bungee jumping, you name it. Um and then after a period, I started to feel like this is wonderful. I'm meeting lots of people, I've learned huge amounts about the world, but I feel like I don't have any meaning. And that was kind of gnawing at me. So I started to think about, well, what do I want to do? And I had not huge pressure, but you know, you're gonna come home and get a job kind of thing for my parents. Um, and so I started to think, well, what would I want to do for a job? And when I'd been unwell in hospital, all the healthcare professionals were wonderful. But for me, the nurses in particular, it was they were the ones who really helped me emotionally because it was quite frightening, particularly because I was on a ward of terminally ill children a lot of the time. And I used to sit around there late at night and I was in London, so no family or friends nearby, just my parents staying locally, and I would look at these children who were dying, and that was a huge thing to kind of go through. And the nurses would sit with me at my bed and would talk me through things, and and so I really put nurses on this high pedestal because they were really there for me. And so I kind of thought, well, maybe I'll become a nurse. And I also, with all my travelling, I'd seen jobs for nurses everywhere, and I thought, gosh, if you're going to be a nurse, you can go anywhere in the world. So that was my story to becoming a nurse. So I went back to the UK, trained to be a nurse. And then when I qualified, I went and spent some time in Uganda nursing. Um, and then I went back to London. And interestingly, I didn't realise it at the time, but I my first job was in operating theatre. And I think there was a subconscious thing there about what had happened to my arm having a swab left, because it was an unusual choice. It wasn't what I was interested in. I was interested in infectious diseases. Worked in this operating theatre, it was trauma pediatric, interestingly, operating theatre as well. And then after a while, um, although it was a really interesting job, I didn't enjoy it that much because I noticed it depended on the team whether or not I enjoyed the day. And anyone who's worked in operating theatres, I don't know if you have, Deb, but it's very much because it's focused on one patient, you've got to work really well as a team. And I noticed if the team got on well, it was wonderful. But if there was any tensions, which often there were, I could really feel the tension in the air. And so I wasn't enjoying it. So after a while I left and I pursued a career in infectious diseases. And I'm I'm telling you this because it's part of the story later on. But then I was working in infectious diseases, working on a ward, and I'd always been fascinated by HIV and tuberculosis in particular, and then so ended up working in a clinic, and I could see there were problems between the ward and the clinic, and it was affecting patient outcomes. And so I made some simple suggestions for change, and I was kind of met with that, you know, kind of fatigue resistance. We've always done it this way, just not wanting to implement it. And I felt really frustrated. You know, I was a fairly new nurse, excited to come in and make a difference to patients, and I came up against all this resistance and felt quite frustrated. So, what I ended up doing was I was talking to someone, I think it was a consultant on the ward, and he said to me, if you want to make change, you should get into research. That's where you can make real world change. So I thought, okay, that's what I'll do. I went and pursued a master's in uh global public health and wonderful experience at the London School of Hygiene Tropical Medicine. There was people from all over the world working there. There was people who were kind of, you know, doing these massive public health programs across whole countries trying to like eradicate polio in India and things like that. And then I got a job working for at the time in the UK, the Health Protection Agency, and I would go around London collecting data. Um, but that was quite difficult as a nurse because I could collect data. And even though I had my master's in global public health and heavily research, you know, new research quite well from that, there was no pathway for a nurse to get into research in the UK at this time. And the consultant on the study was quite happy to have me analyze data and get involved, but he says I can't because of the funding models and the way everything worked. So there would be kind of medical doctors coming in who didn't have the training I had had in the masters, but because of their the way their pathways worked, they were able to. So it felt quite frustrating. And so I decided I'd leave that and I'd go get a job in public health. And then as I was looking for work, I saw this advert looking at research for communication in the operating theatre. And it just really resonated with me. I thought, you know what? I would really like to understand what's going on and how we can make that better, particularly because I'd been personally affected, but also because I'd experienced it as a as a nurse. And they were looking, so I decided to apply. And you might know Roger Nebone. You all familiar. So Roger Nebone, very big name in simulation, um, a surgeon and a GP and uh works at Imperial College London, he was actually the principal investigator for this project. It wasn't about simulation, but he'd partnered with some other people. And I applied for the job and I got the job, and that's how I started working with Roger. And the study was hugely successful and it went global, it was in the news, I was on the BBC World News and everything, and we had huge outputs. Um, but again, I was quite frustrated because although we'd shown these problems in the operating theatre and come up with solutions, even though you had good research, people were always finding reasons not to make the change. And I remember we had the Royal College of Surgeons, the Royal College of Nurses, and the Royal College of Venetists in the UK all give statements to the press that we need more research. And you kind of think, well, how much research do you need to show there's bad communication? Yeah, it was fascinating. So I again I had this frustration of God, why is it so hard to make change? Even when it's change, it'll be good for patients, for staff. So Roger said to me, and I'd started getting involved with simulation at that time because he was doing really interesting stuff, and he was like, Why don't you stay? Don't go into public health and stay once project's finished and do simulation with the team. And he had a wonderful team at the moment. We were a real mixed group. We had everything from the medical doctors to the nurses to medical historians, science communicators, software engineers, all sorts of different disciplines. And we were trying and testing simulation. And I ended up doing my doctorate with him there at Imperial, and we were really playing with simulation, like what can it achieve and what can it do? And we were doing stuff then that people thought was crazy and wasn't simulation, and now now 10-15 years later, everyone's just starting to take it up. So it's interesting, but again, it's very hard to make change. Um, so yeah, that that was how I got into simulation. And whilst I was with Roger, I did all this wonderful work, particularly around sequential simulation, and it was where the beginning of my thinking about transformative simulation came about when doing my doctorate. Then I ended up going into a leadership role working between a hospital and a university and trying to increase capacity and capability of research amongst different professions. And then simulation came back into my life, even though I was still doing research in it. I wasn't heavily involved, but I got asked by the university I was in, the University of Greenwich, to help set up and create a strategy for their simulation center. So I worked on that. And then because I was doing that, I thought I'd better kind of get my head back into the field of simulation and decided to join ASPI just to see what was happening. And then everything's kind of snowballed since then. And then I led a centre for professional workforce development and had a big simulation component in that. And then here I am now. So yeah, quite the journey through healthcare, lots of different areas from clinical background to research to leadership to all sorts of yeah, uh academia. Oh, and I developed a master's program in simulation as well.

Deb Tauber:

So it sounds like your background blends your practice, medical education, research, and leadership experiences into your approach to getting into simulation.

Sharon Weldon:

Yeah, yeah. It's being yeah, it it's so I I think I come quite a different lens in some ways because I've seen it from so many different angles as well. And I look at it from very different angles. Um, but yeah, quite different.

Jerrod Jeffries:

Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there, Sharon.

Sharon Weldon:

Yeah, I know. Sorry, I told you, I warned you.

Jerrod Jeffries:

Incredible, but I also like, I mean, from the very start, right? Such a powerful story of oh my gosh, that's yeah, you were you went through the some hardship pretty early on, and then you kind of you kind of went the exact opposite route. It was like, hey, I don't want anything to do with this life, I'm gonna go to a country. Fortunately, you spoke English so you could communicate. Uh and then you know, went on some journey and found out a lot about yourself and into everything of you know, with Roger Deebone, of course, and operating theater, coming back to it, and then now getting ready to take the reins over at ASPI.

Sharon Weldon:

So yeah, it's quite the journey. And it's only just beginning.

Jerrod Jeffries:

Exactly, exactly. But I want to get into more of probably the transformative simulation. So I know that you're working on a lot of research and areas within this. Can you describe this a little more and then what you're specifically doing and who with?

Sharon Weldon:

Yeah, so this has been going on for a long time. And I as I just mentioned, the seed was planted for me. When I was doing my doctorate, I was trying to design different simulations for different purposes because we were using simulation in so many ways. And I realized that the purpose of the simulation was made a huge difference to the design and how you thought about it and how you approached it. And so when I actually did my doctorate, I had to have uh had to separate them in different ways. And then that was when I started to realize, and interestingly, so there was simulation to educate, and that was kind of well established in how most people think about simulation generally, that you're using it as a tool to educate. So you have like best practice, the best way to do something, and we're going to use simulation to show students and help them experience how to do that, or learners. And then we were also using simulation at the time to make change in healthcare. So, for example, we were working with there was this idea at the time about integrated care, and what they wanted to do in London was to make more seamless integrated care across the community care and the secondary hospital care, the acute care. And we were using simulation to bring all these different stakeholders together, whether it be healthcare professionals or patients or managers, and try and make sense of a system and then redesign it and then test it out through simulation, which was quite a different use. We weren't saying, here's simulation, here's how we educate and train. We were using it differently. But we knew we weren't the only people using it that way as well. There was people all around the world doing it. But often when I tried to publish, I would get reviewers coming back saying, What's your learning outcomes? And I'd say, Well, we didn't have learning outcome. We were trying to make change, but or we didn't know what the problems were. And yet people were like trying to force me into this education box with my publications and what was, and people would say that's not simulation. And I'd say, Who's defined simulation fully? What is it? Tell me what you know. And so I found it really fascinating, but I saw it was a real problem because there was confusion in the literature. There was confusion when talking to people about, you know, simulation is very complex to design and do, as we know because we work in it, and that was creating more confusion. So over time I start to think about it, and I I came up with this term of transformative simulation, which was originally going to be called um transformative simulation design, but the the acronym was a bit too much like STD, which I don't know if in America it's, but in the UK it's yes, yes, yes, yeah. So and then what I want to do was kind of collectively understand what the world was doing because I knew they were using simulation for change creatively, but it was really hard to bring it all together because everyone was calling it something different. There was real fragmentation across the world. And so I started um working with a group of people that I'd met through simulation, and then we started an app an Aspie specialist interest group with people who are interested in this area of simulation, and we defined it as a simulation for collective understanding, insight, learning, and change, you know, as a way to collectively bring people together to make change in healthcare. And we spent years trying to identify, we had this like cyclical, cyclical approach where we tried to understand where it was in the literature and find all the different ways people were describing it. And then we ended up doing this really big systematic review a few years back. And we, at the time, we know it wasn't, didn't cover everything, but around the world we found 87 different papers with and amongst them 76 different terms for simulation that makes change. So it just shows you like there was no way we could bring this together or people could. So that's where transformative simulation came from, is that we wanted to give it a name so that people could put it together. But also we realized when we brought this all together that within transformative simulation or simulation for change, there was very different purposes within it. So some people were using it to innovate, you know, bring in a new medical device, for example, and test the system to see how that's situated. Some were using it to identify problems like latent safety threats, some were using it to engage patients or underrepresented voices in their care pathways, some were using it more for like well-being and empowerment of staff, some were using it to influence policies. So we started seeing, wow, this is really creative how people are using simulation. And that's where we did the taxonomy. So we we thought about the different ways that they were using it and we grouped them. And so we had uh seven what we call simulation-based intentions. So it's what's your intention of change? And then we ended up with, you know, the innovation, the improvement, quality improvement is used quite a lot. We're quite used to involvement, which was those underrepresented voices, influence, identification, which is like the latest safety threats, the problems, interventions when they didn't quite know what problem was, but they wanted the simulation to unearth it, and then inclusion, which was the to do with this the workforce, really. And we ended up being able to put all these different papers in these different SBIs, and that really started the beginnings of the transformative simulation framework. So it was embedded in the global literature, the stuff that we define, what people were doing. And then we asked people to start sending us their case studies of what they were using it for so we could find more examples. And then as time went on and working with lots of different people around the world with this and within the specialist interest group, we started to realize that people needed help doing it because it was quite complex. And what we did know from the literature is that in these different eyes, people were engaging different people. So, for example, if they were looking to identify latent safety threats, there was a lot of human factors methods or theory being used or experts. Um if you were looking to engage members of the public, there was a lot of engagement theory being used and things like that. So we thought, well, actually, we can take all these theoretical models and these different disciplines and we can align them with the eyes so that people know what they have to kind of go to to consider from a design perspective. So we did that work as well. We aligned all of that, and then we start to think that before you even get to that point, you have to have some kind of principles of what you do. And that's kind of your values, I guess. So we decided we designed these five Ps, which are kind of like the first one is your purpose. So if someone's come to you saying, I want you to use simulation to make change in this area, is it really worth using simulation for this? That kind of we don't just use simulation for the sake of it, it's it's got to have a good purpose. Um, and then you work through the different ones, and there's stuff to do with like power, because sometimes the systems and the infrastructure around you don't actually allow you to kind of do the simulation in the way you want to. There was there's other elements around whose voices are included, because once you start that simulation design, we can design it in a million ways. But if we don't have the right voices from the start, we won't get the outcomes we want for change. And also, can you actually achieve this? Because it's all very well doing a simulation for change, but if there's no way they're going to make any change, is it worth doing it? So the five P's are kind of like your values and principles. If we're going to do this, can we meet all these? Then we use the intentions to start thinking about what are we actually trying to do? Is this something that is about an innovation or is this something about identification? And you can have a couple of them, you don't just have to have one, but often there's a primary. And then we've got the four D's. So the four D's, we go back to the seven I's, but they help us think about the design, delivery, data, and debrief. Because when you're making simulation for change, the data bit is particularly important because you need to capture that change in some form and then be able to use it in practice. Whereas you don't necessarily need that in education. So this whole framework we've created is based on the literature, it's based on existing theoretical models and expertise, and really on values of the simulation community and our knowledge of how to do really good simulation but impactful change. And I guess the ambition with it is that we want to bring us as a simulation community, and we talk globally when we say this, to come together so that we can actually get the legitimacy for this kind of simulation. Because what we found globally is there's a few pockets of people doing it really well and getting that legitimacy, but most people are doing it within an educational resource context and they're having to kind of almost borrow from the educational budget. And that's a real shame because it's external people don't understand that simulation can be used in this way. So it feels like it's our responsibility as a simulation community to come together and show that we have a powerful tool, and then we can also build up the evidence base because we we have you the framework to put it in. So that's really what the transformative simulation is about. It's a very practical framework, but it's also a movement, really, to say, come on, let's all get behind this and let's get the legitimacy, the resourcing, the advancement of it, because it slows it down if we don't work together, because we can't collect that larger scale data or examples of impact.

Jerrod Jeffries:

Yeah, and people are working in two parallel lanes. And to your earlier point of vocabulary or acronyms, it's you're doing the same thing, but then you think, wait, we're doing the exact opposite of the same? Or it turns out exactly. Yeah.

Deb Tauber:

Now, thank you for sharing that very informative information about transformative simulation. What do you plan to share as far as what are your goals and dreams for ASPI, as well as your vision for its future? Are you going to incorporate the transformative simulation into the other?

Sharon Weldon:

Yeah, I mean, a transformative simulation is already there because there's lots of work happening with the SIM community as part of ASPI with it anyway. Um, but that's part it, that the vision is bigger than that, I think. And obviously, we're working together as ASPI as a whole executive committee, but also as a community. So, and I think a lot of thinking for me personally, my thinking is really about how do we start position simulation more as a central and necessary tool in healthcare, both as education and training and as a means of change, rather than an add-on. Because I feel over the years it's been treated a bit as an add-on. And actually, I do personally believe, and I know I'm speaking to the converted, but it's an incredibly powerful, important tool. And I think we somehow need to make others understand that so it gets positioned effectively. And I do think it's the future. I think things are going to change drastically, but I think we need to be help take that forward. And and I think it's about supporting and transforming health and care, but it's also really a tool for me to help all of those involved and affected by healthcare to reimagine its future in a very fast-changing world. So healthcare is changing constantly. It's very hard to keep up with. And I think simulation could help us make the change, the change agents we need for the future if we use it effectively. But I think as a community, we have to come together to kind of do that. And that's work that I would like to do with ASPI, but also work globally with everyone else to do as well.

Jerrod Jeffries:

Yeah, I hear the similar thread of being collective, growing the industry and sharing best practices and learning from one another. Yeah. Yeah. Amen.

Sharon Weldon:

Exactly. No. And it's, you know, it's so complex. All the different professions involved, we have industry, we have technology, we have we can't do it without each other. We can't do it well without each other. And I think as soon as we start recognizing that more, that will be the beginning of us, really.

Jerrod Jeffries:

And it's there's no need to reinvent the wheel. I mean, yeah, okay, it's not a one-to-one fit, but you're able to shave off years or however much you know, money, or there's a way that you can go so far and then say, okay, now we have to adjust it or adapt it to our situation, our environment, etc.

Sharon Weldon:

But yeah, and another thing that's I think it's really quite um new, which from a researcher perspective has been really helpful, is that it was it is quite a new field. It's only a few decades old, really. I mean, obviously simulation's been around longer, but in terms of actual kind of field within within healthcare, and for years we weren't really able to share the learning very easily. But now, because of all the public the scholarly journals and all these kind of things, as a researcher, I can go out and do, like I did for transformative simulation, and others can. We can start bringing together all of that collective knowledge. And this is quite a shift, whereas we haven't been able to do that for a long time. And this puts us in a very different position now, whereas before we were all reinventing the world because it was hard to know who was doing what, and but we can start to bring it together. So this is the opportunity, I see it. Yeah.

Jerrod Jeffries:

Yeah, I love it, Sharon. So I but I want to go, I want to go the other way though, as well. So we're making sure we're looking at both sides. So I love the vision and the in the future, and and I wholeheartedly agree. I will try to support you as possible there. But I want to also look at the other side of what do you think are the biggest challenges within the simulation industry? And you know what more so I know it's semi-related, but how would you envision the field evolving over the next say five years?

Sharon Weldon:

So I think there are a lot of challenges, and I think a lot of it comes down to some of the challenges I seem to have faced throughout my whole career, but it's the fear of change, first of all. People have and people do get quite stuck in the way that they're doing things. And I understand it's also you keep there's a lot of stagnation, there's low morale, it's really difficult to do change, but that can really hold us back, and that fragmentation is still there massively. We're not very good at coming together, and we've been used to not the system's set up against us globally everywhere, and every healthcare organization and simulation, it strangulates us, and we can't get past the systems often either, and that's a problem. And the system actually sets us up for competition rather than collaboration. They talk about collaboration in healthcare and everywhere, but the system is set up to compete. It really is everything from down to how you get a job, everything is competition.

Deb Tauber:

Yeah, that's a good point.

Sharon Weldon:

Yeah, and because of that, until we take the reins ourselves and try and move things forward and get past that competition thing, which isn't easy, but we're not going to advance very quickly. So it does require a lot of kind of moral courage from all of us and a bit being a bit ideological, otherwise we'll just stay in the same patterns, I feel. So there is a lot of challenges. But I feel that people are getting a bit fed up as well of the status quo and how we're not moving forward as fast as we should. I mean, it does feel there's been movements in some areas, but there's lots of areas everyone feels like it's still been the same for the last 10, 20 years. So how do we get past that? Um Yeah.

Deb Tauber:

Finally, what advice would you offer for emerging leaders in simulation? And what kind of legacy do you want to leave behind?

Sharon Weldon:

Gosh, big question. I think as I was just saying, I think there's something about not accepting how things are sometimes, just because that's how something's always being done, or it's the status quo. I think it's okay to kind of challenge constructively, but to say, you know, is this the right way to do things? And I think emerging leaders need to come in and do that and not just follow suit because we're not going to move things forward. And I think in terms of a legacy for me, um, I would really like to bring as much of the simulation community and healthcare community together. But my biggest thing is having an impact on healthcare. And be have having been a patient a few times myself, I do think simulation is a real opportunity to impact healthcare a lot more than it currently. Is and I think if we can enable the tool, it would be the most incredible legacy for all of us to think about what we're able to change and do for healthcare and for patients or to me, but also staff. I keep I think we keep forgetting that healthcare isn't just the patients, but it's it's about people, it's about the people you know looking after the patients as well. And and that's where I'd like the care to come in for simulation too. I'm really big on inclusivity, it's one of Aspie's core values, and for me, it's huge. I feel that it's just the most obvious thing in the world because when you've got different ideas and people coming together, it just for me, everything I've done, every project, every it's always been better, the more kind of people from different professions or backgrounds come together. And so I think that'd be a legacy I'd like to leave to to make sure that I keep that value going forward.

Deb Tauber:

Now, if our listeners want to get a hold of you, they want to help you out, how can they do that?

Sharon Weldon:

ASPI, come join us at ASPI, get in touch with us there. You can join the specialist interest groups. We've got journal clubs, we've got all sorts of initiative, and you don't have to be a member to be part of them. It's open to everyone. We're just trying to kind of build the community. But yeah, come join us, come to our conference. We've got a conference in November.

Jerrod Jeffries:

Well, this has been so enjoyable, Sharon. Thank you. I love the vision. I think there's a lot of steps we have to get do to get there, but it is a collective effort. And I think you know, groups such as ASPI, as well as the other organizations around the world, are everybody has to play their part. And I think that one conversation sparks another conversation, and you know, it takes another one to spark a movement. So not saying that starts here, but hopefully, hopefully at least engages in uh other conversation. So thank you for your time and sharing your insight with us. And let us allowing us to learn and and learn a bit more about you.

Deb Tauber:

Yeah. No, thank you for having me.

Discalimer/ Beaker Health/ Intro:

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Jerrod Jefferies

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