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The Sim Cafe~
Discussions on innovative ideas for simulation and reimagining the use of simulation in clinical education. We discuss current trends in simulation with amazing guests from across the globe. Sit back, grab your favorite beverage and tune in to The Sim Cafe~
The Sim Cafe~
The Journey from Lifeguard to SSH President: Dr. Jared Kutzin's Simulation Story
What happens when lifeguard training, soccer refereeing, and healthcare education collide? Dr. Jared Kutzin, current President of the Society for Simulation in Healthcare (SSH), reveals how his unconventional journey through hands-on learning environments shaped his understanding of simulation long before he knew the field existed.
Dr. Kutzin's story illuminates the power of experiential learning, from his high school days practicing CPR on mannequins to training in burn buildings during fire academy. His realization that these "drills" and "practical exams" were actually sophisticated simulations came during graduate school, where connecting with pioneers at the Center for Medical Simulation in Cambridge opened his eyes to the science behind effective simulation-based education.
As SSH President, Dr. Kutzin shares his vision for advancing simulation globally through initiatives like the Commission for International Simulation Accreditation (CISA) – allowing regional simulation societies to culturally adapt accreditation standards while maintaining quality. He offers nuanced perspectives on emerging technologies, suggesting virtual reality works best for novice learners while augmented reality presents advantages for skills requiring tactile feedback.
Looking toward 2025, SSH is investing in infrastructure improvements including a new website and learning management system, while simultaneously reaching out to underserved communities. The unprecedented decision to hold a board meeting alongside the SimOps conference demonstrates the organization's commitment to the simulation operations community.
Dr. Kutzin's parting advice emphasizes the power of collaboration – not just between simulation organizations, but locally with computer programmers, game developers, and others who can help advance simulation technology. His journey reminds us that the most effective learning often happens through doing, a principle that continues to drive healthcare simulation's evolution worldwide.
Ready to explore how simulation can transform your healthcare education program? Subscribe to the Sim Cafe for more conversations with leaders shaping the future of clinical education.
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The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of anyone at Innovative Sim Solutions or our sponsors. Thanks to SimVS for sponsoring this week's episode. The new SimVS iV Infusion Pump Simulator is the first to market in this critical learning area, with great realism and advanced features like simulation, meta orders, gamified med arrows and more. Simvs IV significantly reduces the burden for training proper IV administration when compared to refurbished pumps. Simvs IV helps students develop the confidence needed in a safe environment before facing the challenges of modern health care. To learn more, visit www. simvscom. Welcome to The Sim Cafe, a podcast produced by the team at Innovative Sim Solutions, edited by Shelly Houser. Join our host, Deb Tauber, and co-host Jerrod Jeffries as they sit down with subject matter experts from across the globe to reimagine clinical education and the use of simulation. So pour yourself a cup of relaxation, sit back, tune in and learn something new from The Sim Cafe.
Deb Tauber:Welcome to another episode of the Sim Cafe, and today we have Dr Jared Kutzin and Jerrod Jeffries. So we've got the Jared squared. Welcome, and Jared Ku, thank you so much for being a guest. We're so grateful.
Jared Kutzin:Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to it.
Deb Tauber:You've been on the show before, so why don't you share your journey again for Jared and for any listeners who maybe hadn't heard that episode?
Jared Kutzin:Yeah, so journey into simulation is kind of an interesting and roundabout way. I started my career well, not realizing that it was simulation that we were doing so growing up. I'm from New Jersey, originally, currently living in New York, and I was a soccer player growing up, goalkeeper, referee, and one day a kid got hit in the face with a ball and I had no idea what to do. Blood was everywhere. And I went and spoke to my high school science teacher who ran the EMS club and he's like I was like I want to take a CPR class, I just want the basics. And he's like sure, come on Thursday next week. So we did that. And he's like you on Thursday next week. So we did that. And he's like you should come back on friday. And I'm like for what? He's like professional level cpr. And I looked at him like he was crazy because I was like listen, I am not a professional. You want me to like remember all these numbers five to one and ten to two and and all these numbers for pediatrics and adults and this and that, and one person and two person. And he's like and we're going to teach you how to use this machine. It could kill you if you do it wrong, but it'll save their life if you do it right. And I'm like you're not making this any more appealing to me, and so he convinced me to come back for professional last year CPR and lo and behold, I went away to work at a summer camp that summer as a soccer coach and they needed some more people to become lifeguards and I had always been on the swim team.
Jared Kutzin:I had a pool in my backyard as a kid and I was like I already did the hard part of CPR, I can do this. And so I learned to be a lifeguard and it was great. And I went home from summer camp and I started having conversations with my science teacher again and I was like what's next after lifeguarding? He's like well, emt, obviously. So I went to the local EMS Academy where I went to the EMT program and throughout that you were doing CPR mannequins, you were splinting classmates, you were doing all sorts of hands-on practical skills. In fact, not only were you learning to do those skills, but you were assessed. There was a test and there was a checklist and there was all of these things that you had to do to pass.
Jared Kutzin:And I passed, became an EMT, went away to college, the only way to keep being an EMT was go through the fire academy and join the fire department. So I did that and lo and behold, like how do you know to stay low in a fire? Well, they lit a fire in a big pit in a building and they were talking to you and after a couple of minutes you were starting to smell the smoke and they told you to get down onto a knee and it got a lot cooler and there was no smoke. And a few minutes later they told you to sit down because the smoke had come down to your level. And you remembered after that to always get low and stay low in a fire, right. And so we didn't call any of that stuff simulations. They were burn buildings, they were practical exam, they were right skilled labs, whatever it was. But this is how I always learned, right Like.
Jared Kutzin:I was never a great book student. I was always that person who was doing practicing, tinkering, right Like doing stuff. And so when I went away to college, I had a professor of mine who looked at me and said you should go to nursing school. So I did. And then I moved to Boston because my real interest was in like the global public, healthy type things, not the individual patients, I'm sorry, but like bigger picture. And so I went to the School of Public Health at Boston University and I had a professor who told us how the way you talk changes the way you work. And I sat in this class. I was the only clinician and there was about 20 other students and they're all like going to be hospital administrators one day and I thought I was going to run a hospital and they're all like going to be hospital administrators one day.
Jared Kutzin:And I thought I was going to run a hospital and we spent 15 weeks learning about like causal loop diagrams and reinforcing loops and crucial conversations and all of this like stuff. And I went up to my professor I was like listen, I don't get exactly what you mean. You want me to go back to an office that I don't have to think about what was said during a meeting, to fix things for next time. I work in an emergency department. It's get me this, get me that, I need this, I need that. Shout like, how does this apply to me? And my professor said well, write a letter to these four people Dr Cooper, gordon, raymer and Simon. They sometimes let grad students see what we do up in Cambridge. So I wrote this letter and, lo and behold, I was able to go up to the Center for Medical Simulation in Cambridge with my professor, jenny Rudolph, and that was my foray into medical healthcare simulation. Because they dropped us into a simulation, took us out, debriefed us, talked about what we said during those critical events, changed the way we work, gave us chances to do it again and I was like there's like a field for this, there's like science behind this, there's there's methods that we should know about.
Jared Kutzin:And so my first job out of grad school was at Brigham and Women's Hospital in quality and patient safety, and I was on the code committee and I sat next to a physician and we got along great. And he said you know something about simulation. I said I know a little bit. Like you know, I went to an EMT class, I went up to the Center for Medical Simulation. He says well, see what I do down in my sim center. And that was Chuck Posner at the Stratus Center for Medical Simulation and like so, like there's six key people my high school science teacher, my professor in college, Jenny Rudolph, chuck Posner.
Jared Kutzin:I moved back to New York, Haru A kuda and I got in touch and we ran the SIM program at Jacobi together and my foray into SSH was through Suzie Kardong-Edgren. So I came to an SSH and IMSH conference and it was really early on. I think it was our first research summit and Susie said to the group of people gathered for the nursing STIG meeting I think it was at the time, did anybody know anything about human factors engineering? And I had been working in patient safety and healthcare quality and I had done a fellowship through the NPSF and I was like I raised my hand, I was like I've heard of it. She goes, great, you're now on this writing group, go join this team. And I was like, uh, okay, a total fish out of water.
Jared Kutzin:And that was, I think, the year Peter Dykeman was was leading the research symposium and I got put onto this writing team and we got a paper published in the journal and I was like this is cool, right, because I was in this environment where you had brilliant people who were all super approachable, who were all figuring this thing out together and charting the course, and it was a young society and it was a small meeting and in my career up until that point I had never been given a name to any of this stuff and now we have standards and certifications and career pathways and all of this stuff.
Jared Kutzin:But my foray into simulation was like as a high school student learning to teach lifeguarding and making kids jump into a pool and when I pat my head you pretend to drown and see if the kid sitting up in the lifeguard chair can identify who's drowning and go in and save them. Or practicing cutting people out of cars. Or putting duct tape over your face mask and Scott pack so that you're simulating that you were crawling through an obstacle course in a in a building with collapsed structures and having to find a victim and drag them out. Those were just drills and practice but like those were all simulations and that's that's my foray and entry into simulation and into the society for simulation and healthcare.
Jerrod Jeffries:That's wonderful and it makes me think of one of the quotes of you never really underestimate the power of passion. And it's just a group of like minded individuals that are so passionate about simulation and all the different walks, shapes and forms that you're just like.
Jared Kutzin:Okay, let's push into this administration and mentorship and like to round out the story a little bit. So I was a soccer referee for many years. I'm still a certified referee, and to move up in the soccer referee world you had to be assessed. So we had referee assessors and in the last couple of years they've softened the language. We now have referee mentors and referee coaches, and the job of the referee mentor is to teach new referees, but also to attend their games, potentially videotape them and debrief them after their game, after the match that they officiated, and potentially review the videotape with them and guide them through a guided reflection of their calls and their positioning and everything else. And so that's actually something I'm doing on the side.
Jared Kutzin:I am a referee mentor for the United States Soccer Federation and the linkage between what I do full-time in healthcare simulation and soccer refereeing actually has come full circle, which I think is really amazing, because we're starting to see these concepts permeate throughout all the things that we do. And so the hardest part I think we were talking right before you started recording about and so the hardest part I think we were talking right before you started recording about children I have two I know. Deb, you have grandkids, and Jerrod, you have two. The hardest part is to remember to use these tactics with your children. When they start misbehaving, inquire and ask them why are you doing that, not just try to correct their behavior? Still working on that one, to be honest, Aren't we all yes aren't we all?
Deb Tauber:And how interesting that Susie G Vallon told you from early on.
Jared Kutzin:Yeah, oh my god. Now I get to teach with Susie from time to time, and what a joy that is. But that's what's really special about the society and especially coming to IMSH the people that wrote some of the early work, the seminal works, the pioneers, if you will. I know we use that term in a little bit different fashion at the meeting. There's a lot of these originators and they're still around. You can still go have a cup of coffee with them. You could still pick their brains. And where else does that get to happen? The inventor of the defibrillator is no longer with us.
Jerrod Jeffries:What scares me there, though, is once these people retire, which they are, or in a few years, whatever is, how do we continue to hold on to that content, knowledge? We want to make sure that passes down from generation to generation to of the pioneers.
Jared Kutzin:Of course, of course. Yeah, it's extremely valuable. It was so great to see like so many of the past presidents come back to IMSH this past year and they're still doing great work. Some of them have taken a half a step outside of simulation but like simulation is still in their DNA, still like a big part of who they are.
Jerrod Jeffries:To that it's like it is funny because you know people are out of simulation but they still have such this passion, or like they want to continue to see the industry grow, develop, mature and they still give their time and their effort, energy, etc.
Jerrod Jeffries:So 100% agree, yeah and actually one one question that though Jared is, when I remember, at the president's ball, every president past was saying what they want to be, what they've been remembered for, and one question to you, maybe, is what you know, you taking on the reins here, dr Eisenberg what would you be wanting to be remembered for, say, in five years from now?
Jared Kutzin:Not screwing it up.
Jerrod Jeffries:That's fair.
Jared Kutzin:We've been around for 20 plus years. At this point, right Like you don't want to be that person. In all seriousness, I think it's a couple of big things, right. So one is looking at how we can continue to collaborate with both simulation and non-simulation organizations to drive the importance of simulation forward. So that means reaching out, finding partners across the world who are starting to use simulation, who are establishing the use of simulation, and figuring out what we can do together to come together to continue to foster simulation use and the advancement of it.
Jared Kutzin:And then it's looking internally to the United States a little bit and saying, if I go back to my roots, ems, we still need to get them as a community engaged with SSH more. And there's a lot of those pockets and there's rural communities who aren't using simulation and there's the dental industry that uses a lot of simulation but aren't necessarily engaged with SSH as much as they could or should be. So there's pockets of simulation within the US for us to continue to grow in advance. And then there's our partners across the globe and I think what I hope, looking back in a number of years from now, is that we've set the foundation and the bedrock for a multitude of programs to continue on and flourish because we've established those collaborations and connections.
Jared Kutzin:Ssh as an organization, I hope what I set out to do is ensure that we have the right structures and the processes to lead us to the outcomes that we hope and desire for, which is to maintain our status as the world's largest, most diverse interprofessional, multi-professional simulation society, and we know that we need to be able to not only attract but maintain our members and provide services to them. So in that frame, we are getting a new website, a new learning management system, a new association management system. So in five years from now, when you look at the webpage, I hope we haven't changed vendors and I hope that during my term as president that we've been able to establish the new website that has provided our members with such great benefit that, you know, our membership continues to grow, engagement with the society grows and the value they receive from the society continues to grow as well.
Jerrod Jeffries:Yeah. I think, that's a good legacy to leave behind if there's more of a digitization. As you mentioned, it's 20 plus years and to realize that we're living more and more in the digital world as that of the physical, I think, is a good one to be pushing into.
Deb Tauber:So thanks, yeah, I like the global reach that you're hoping to attract and I think that that's you know. You're in a good spot to do that this year with the new work with C-SPAC Yep. What role do you see SSH playing in shaping the future of healthcare globally?
Jared Kutzin:Yeah, I mean I think we just alluded to that, but I think we have a lot of opportunity to continue to advance the work that has been established with the Global Consensus Statement, and so we have some exciting projects that we're working on related to that Our advocacy group, again reaching out domestically but also internationally, and then the opportunities to engage with our partners around the world to advance accreditation and certification in their local country and their local organizations through those collaborative partnerships that allow for them to take a little bit of ownership of the accreditation process.
Deb Tauber:Yeah, that's exciting work, Very exciting work. Now I'm going to push lanes here just a minute and ask you about telehealth and virtual reality. Telehealth and virtual reality are becoming more integrated into medical training. How do you think these technologies will influence healthcare and simulation?
Jared Kutzin:So those are two different technologies, right? So telehealth is really this idea of virtual care. Whether you're on Zoom or some other platform, I see telehealth right. There's a whole art and science to having care remotely and so doing trainings for people doing telehealth, figuring out so many of the unique aspects of that process is really, really important. I was just doing a training the other day where they were like we have a mandated reporter training for child abuse that I had to complete and the nuances of conducting a pediatric wellness visit via telehealth and how do you identify abusive, potential abusive environments or relationships is very different when you can't see the bruises or see the interactions of people or who's standing right off screen, and so I think doing simulations for some of those nuanced environments and nuanced conditions is really, really important. So I think we can see a lot of training being developed for the telehealth environment.
Jared Kutzin:How do you put your white coat on, how do you angle your camera, how do you do all those sorts of things? Now, vr, and you specifically asked about VR, but I'm going to enlarge that to XR, extended reality, mr, mixed reality, ar, augmented reality. I see and this is just my own personal view on this right now, after doing some research studies on this, I think VR is really really valuable, but I think it's valuable for the novice. I think it's valuable for the individual who's learning parts and pieces of things. There are components of VR that I think are good for the more experienced provider, especially if you're talking about stress, inoculation and things along those lines. I also think you're talking about the quality of the VR. So VR and the traditional things that we are seeing in the healthcare space, it's task-based training, right. It's learning the parts of the intubation equipment, it's learning the process of this, but you'd lose the tactile feel. Right. You can't learn to start an IV in VR. You can learn the parts and pieces, you can learn the steps, but you don't actually get the feeling of it when you do it. There is VR and I've been involved with some of this like the police department in New York uses where you use VR holding an airsoft weapon, fully immersed in this artificial environment, but you actually can point and shoot and step on things and explosions happen and that's like amazingly realistic and with the snap of a finger, you can be in a completely different environment and you can change the way that the scenario unfolds for the individuals who are participating in it. So I think there is VR for experienced providers, but I think in the healthcare field, we're still waiting to see that come about.
Jared Kutzin:In many ways, shapes and forms, partly because the one I was just talking about with the police department it's like a backpack-worn computer-powered VR device. We're still talking about using MediQuest headsets, which are wireless, which are much more convenient, a lot less expensive, but also a lot less powerful. The challenge, though, is that when you use a lower-end device, the ability to produce high-quality images that allow you to be immersed in the environment for an extended period of time is extremely reduced. That's where I think AR has a significant benefit to the VR world. I could live in a VR world and I start getting a little motion sickness. I have to learn to play the game a little bit because of some of the limitations of the hardware.
Jared Kutzin:Ar, though, I mean. I could spend hours in AR because I see the real world through VR, the device, and then I have the augmented pieces on top of it, so I think there's a lot of value in ar um, but again, you can. You can start having more tactile components with it. You can overlay images. So when you're learning to start the id, you're holding a real iv cannula. You're holding, uh, maybe a part test trainer iv arm, but you're embedding content on top of it, um, that you have to then adjust to. So I think AR has tons of potential. I think VR has a lot of potential as well. I think hardware has to catch up to where software is at the moment, but I think all of these things are ripe for innovation within our field.
Jerrod Jeffries:Certainly Hearing that it's just there's different use cases for each technology and seeing what sticks or creates the impact, and then you'll be able to use that among other customer segments or different areas, industries, et cetera. But certainly an exciting time for all of us of what we're seeing with the realities that we're experiencing.
Deb Tauber:Thank you for that insightful response. I appreciate that and the clarity that it provided. Now we're going to switch back just a little bit. As the president right now, Can you just share the initiatives of CISA and SP initiatives with our listeners so that they can hear from your perspective what those initiatives are?
Jared Kutzin:Sure. So you mentioned CISA, which is our Commission for Accreditation, which allows for the local society that I think I mentioned this a little bit earlier so it allows for other large simulation societies to take a little bit more ownership of the accreditation process in their local countries, bit more ownership of the accreditation process in their local countries. And so we have a relationship currently that allows a simulation society to go out and accredit institutions on behalf of themselves and SSH, which allows for that local native country to modify some of the criteria slightly within guidelines so that it's more culturally relevant to the accrediting agencies as well as allows for reduced costs to those organizations seeking accreditation, because we're not flying three members of the accreditation team to different countries for extended stays and everything else. So the example would be like Mexico, which is now going to do some accreditations in that local area and they're going to build up their cadre of reviewers and provide the opportunities for organizations and facilities in the local region to become accredited.
Jared Kutzin:What was the second one that you talked about? I haven't heard of that.
Jerrod Jeffries:Jared, that's really wonderful. I think it's a really smart idea and a way to help grow better practices globally, based off the appropriate standards.
Deb Tauber:And I think the cultural portion is just so key because people in different areas do things so differently and how can we include them and bring them along and help move this forward?
Jared Kutzin:move this forward. Yeah, so, like I said, the first one was with Somessex and we're calling them the international affiliate organizations which is going to allow organizations like Somessex to provide dual accreditation. And so this is our commission for international simulation accreditation, which is again allowing, like you said, the proliferation of accreditation but also the refinement of accreditation standards for the local area. What was the second one that you wanted to talk about?
Deb Tauber:Standardized patient initiatives.
Jared Kutzin:Sure, I mean, we've always engaged and had strong working relationship with our standardized patient community.
Jared Kutzin:Just this past year, we honored one of the pioneers.
Jared Kutzin:Our pioneer in simulation was one of the founders of the standardized patient program.
Jared Kutzin:So I think that the opportunity for us to continue engaging with the standardized patient community is extremely, extremely important and extremely valuable, because we need to recognize and continue to recognize that the medical students and nurses and respiratory therapists and all these people at at the end of the day, have to communicate and interact.
Jared Kutzin:So you know, Howard Barrows, the pioneer from this past year, had developed a number of different teaching methodologies, including the use of standardized participants and standardized patients, and, working with the ASPE community, we've always had a strong standardized patient section or special interest group, and I think we can continue to engage and utilize the technique of interacting with standardized patients, even in hybrid scenarios where we're combining a standardized patient or a standardized participant with a part-task trainer or a standardized participant with a part-task trainer. You know there's so many opportunities there for us to continue to engage with that. And then you know you're talking also probably about our new accreditation standards that are related to the standardized patients, and you know that's an important, again for all the reasons I just mentioned no-transcript patients and standardized patient methodology.
Deb Tauber:I agree. I think that it's a fantastic initiative and it's going to really put a lot of focus on the value that the standardized patient can add to simulation and demonstrate that everything that should be measured when using standardized patients. Now, as we get ready to kind of wrap up, what should our listeners be looking forward to for 2025? And how can we support you?
Jared Kutzin:So 2025, I think, is going to be an exciting year. We've got lots of new initiatives that we're rolling out. You know again the new website, which is in the first quarter of this year, I think learning management systems and content is going to be added in. You know, the not too distant future SimOps is coming up this summertime. In the not-too-distant future, simops is coming up this summertime and I think recognizing the value and importance of the simulation operations community is second to none. For the first time, we are partnering one of our board meetings in-person board meetings with the SimOps conference. So just about every member of the board will be in attendance at SimOps this year, which I think is really, really exciting. It demonstrates our commitment to the conference, demonstrates our commitment to that specialized area of the simulation community and I think it exposes not only our SimOps members to the board members but also the board to all the great and unique things that happen at that conference. It's such a fun conference to go to. So I think that's a really exciting thing. So it's in Peoria, Illinois, at the Jump Simulation Center. I encourage everybody if you have any time available, take a trip, come on over. It'll be a fun time and then over the next number of months, you'll hear about a bunch of other initiatives.
Jared Kutzin:We've got some really exciting things happening globally. We have some things happening locally. Our ethics committee is hard at work, of course, always the SSH fund and revamping and relaunching so there's really tons of things going on within the simulation society and so many opportunities for our members to get involved and get engaged. We've grown in the last 20 years. When I came and got involved with SSH, it was easy. You raised your hand at a small meeting of 35 or 40 people and somebody said you're now going over here and you're doing this.
Jared Kutzin:But we've grown and we know that there's challenges with growth and so the Ascend program that we've launched this past year, which is identifying the next generation of simulation leaders we're doing monthly meetings with that select group of individuals and so the call for the next group of Ascend participants will be coming out in the fall. So you know, every quarter there's stuff happening, every month there's stuff happening. You'll find SSH at meetings across the globe. You know Naxal and Aspie and other meetings that are coming up. So our presence is there. We're looking forward to continuing to engage and I think that you'll hear more about all of the things that are happening within SSH. That leads us to meeting the markers we have set through our strategic plan, each quarter of the year, as they come up and as we're ready to roll out all of these initiatives.
Deb Tauber:Thank you. Thank you Now, Jerrod Jeffries. Do you have any questions for Jared?
Jerrod Jeffries:No, I love that. I mean certainly as busy as ever for SSH and I love you guys' commitment to the sim ops community and in the, the foundations of all those technicians and all the work that they do. But across the board of what all you're doing, and recognizing the growth and the scalability and and the assistance that the industry needs and, of course, ssh is a is a beacon of that of what they've grown and matured into so wonderful yeah yeah, we're excited this is it's it's a two-headed sort of process that we're undertaking, right.
Jared Kutzin:So we have the external things that you're all going to see and our members are going to see and be engaged with, but there's so much going on behind the scenes as well. We are implementing new processes, reconfiguring processes to make them more efficient, so that our staff, who is the lifeblood and backbone of the society, can operate to their highest level, just like we talk about our clinicians operating to the highest level and to the full scope of their practice.
Jared Kutzin:We need to make sure that we have the right processes on the back end so that SSH staff can operate to the highest level and to the fullest as well. And so we're really excited. We've already started to implement some of those systems project management software, communication software and things along those lines. So those aren't the fun and exciting things that our members get to see and hear about, but those are the lifeblood and backbone, and if you don't have those in place, then there's just too much inefficiency and we're not getting the actual work done that we want to get done. Know, as much as I love talking about going to SimOps and engaging with them and and CISA and and the standardized patient programs like there's so much work that that that's going on behind the scenes I just feel like we have to mention, like you know, the importance of that as well, because it's not the fun, sexy, exciting stuff, but it's. It's the important stuff and it's the stuff that we have to get right.
Jerrod Jeffries:But it's investing in infrastructure and that's what's needed for the next leg up back to the next five years. Right, it needs to start somewhere and got to rip off the Band-Aid and invest in that.
Jared Kutzin:That's it.
Deb Tauber:That's what we're doing, all right? Well, we are so grateful to have had you.
Jared Kutzin:Are there any final closing thoughts that you'd like to leave our listeners with?
Jared Kutzin:I would say engage with the community of practice.
Jared Kutzin:And so, whether or not you're attending one of SSH's conference or an affiliate conference, or if you haven't had the opportunity yet, there are so many great opportunities for you to engage in through podcasts like this, through our vendor partners.
Jared Kutzin:There's so many great opportunities for you to engage in through podcasts like this through our vendor partners. There's so many great opportunities for you to engage, for your leadership to engage and for you to engage with the up-and-coming generations and people who are next in line, who are going to continue to move this forward. So, as much as SSH is looking to collaborate and reach out and branch out, I encourage everybody in their home organizations to reach out and branch out and collaborate. Find that computer programmer, find that game developer, work with them on developing content for VR or AR or online content. Take what we're doing globally and do it locally, and if everyone does that, we're going to see massive seismic movements in the way that simulation is utilized and perceived and funded going forward. So it takes everybody, and I'm excited about what the society can do, but I'm also excited about what all of our members can do locally.
Deb Tauber:Thank you. Those are excellent, excellent words to leave our community with and we appreciate you very much.
Jared Kutzin:Thank you, thanks for having me today.
Deb Tauber:Thank you and happy simulating.
Disclaimer/ SimVS Ad/Intro:Thanks to SimVS again for sponsoring this week's episode. To learn more about their new IV infusion pump simulators, check out www. simvscom. Thanks for joining us here at the Sim Cafe. We hope you enjoyed. Visit us at www. innovativesimsolutions. com and be sure to hit that like and subscribe button so you never miss an episode. Innovative Sim Solutions is your one-stop shop for your simulation needs. A turnkey solution.
