The Sim Cafe~
Discussions on innovative ideas for simulation and reimagining the use of simulation in clinical education. We discuss current trends in simulation with amazing guests from across the globe. Sit back, grab your favorite beverage and tune in to The Sim Cafe~
The Sim Cafe~
In this episode Deb and Jerrod have the opportunity to meet virtually with Tom LeMaster and hear about his incredible journey in simulation and history with The Society for Simulation in Healthcare (SSH).
Get ready to embark with us on a fascinating journey into the world of simulation, guided by our special guest, Tom Lamaster. Tom's adventurous spirit led him to an unexpected encounter with a human patient simulator at an EMS conference in Florida, igniting his passion for this revolutionary field. With the support of Dr Mary Patterson and Jen Manos, he played a pivotal role in developing a thriving simulation program at Cincinnati Children's Hospital. His story is a powerful testament to the potential of trade shows in shaping our future, offering us a glimpse into the boundless possibilities of simulation.
In our thought-provoking conversation with Tom, we delve into the transformative impact of simulation in the healthcare industry. Imagine a world where systems function seamlessly, safety events are anticipated and prevented, and performance is consistently optimized. How? Through Simulation! We also venture into the exciting realm of virtual and augmented reality, underscoring the importance of demystifying these technologies for everyone. The pandemic has brought about some valuable lessons, changing the trajectory of simulation training, and Tom shares his unique insights on this shift.
As we conclude our discussion, we dig deep into the essence of accreditation in simulation education. Tom, with his wealth of expertise, elucidates the power of the accreditation process in building a resilient program. He stresses the importance of persistence and patience in attaining that "aha moment" and shares the profound joy of seeing a program flourish through accreditation. From our enlightening discussion with Tom, you'll realize that the journey of successful simulation is not about dividing the pie but expanding it. So, buckle up and join us in this enlightening exploration of the ever-evolving world of simulation!
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The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of anyone at Innovative Sim Solutions or our sponsors. This episode of The Sim Cafe is brought to you by Interact Solution. Interact Solution is a revolutionary and cost-effective audio-visual simulation learning management system developed for instructors to record, organize, schedule, annotate and debrief student simulations, delivering timely, evidence-based feedback. Interact Solution is an ideal complement to your existing curriculum and can be customized for your simulation center. Contact Interact Solution today. Welcome to The Sim Cafe, a podcast produced by the team at Innovative Sim Solutions, edited by Shelly Houser. Join our host, Deb Tauber, and co-host, Jerrod Jeffries as they sit down with subject matter experts from across the globe to reimagine clinical education and the use of simulation. So pour yourself a cup of relaxation, sit back, tune in and learn something new from The Sim Cafe.
Deb Tauber:Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe, and today Jerrod and I are here, and we are very, very fortunate to have Tom LeMaster. Tom, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself before we get started with their discussion? And thank you for being with us.
Tom LeMaster:Sure. Thank you for having me, Deb and Jerrod pleasure. I'm currently at the University of Florida at the Center for Experiential Learning and Simulation. It's the College of Medicine at the University of Florida. I've been here for about five years and we're developing this program, just really making it grow. Prior to that I was at St Jude Children's Hospital in Memphis helping them develop their simulation center and then, going backwards a little bit, was at Chamberlain College of Nursing and then Cincinnati Children's is where all this started for me.
Tom LeMaster:Been at sim a long time, it seems like was very early on. Got involved in SSH, particularly with the accreditation process and when Dr Mary Patterson was president and she asked us one day if we were interested in participating in SSH on the accreditation like it was a subcommittee at that point, I think as a small group and seemed like a good idea. This many years later, still involved. So been enjoying Sim doing a lot of fun things and it's been a great journey for me. I actually appreciate it Back around. I'm a nurse paramedic for 20 some years in Cincinnati at Region, worked at the Cincinnati Children's Hospital on. Most of my nursing career really focused on pediatric nursing.
Deb Tauber:Thank you, Tom and I had the honor of working with you at Chamberlain that's where we met and I was just really impressed with your background and all your contributions to simulation, so I'm so thankful that we're having an opportunity to talk with you today. You kind of shared your journey into simulation, but why don't you share how Dr Patterson introduced you to simulation? What was that journey like?
Tom LeMaster:Yeah, the journey is quite interesting.
Tom LeMaster:It actually started in Florida. Cincinnati Children's Hospital became a trauma center while I was working there and part of that was that they needed an EMS coordinator. So I wound up becoming the EMS coordinator at Cincinnati Children's and I was looking for ways to do EMS training. And I was at an EMS conference in Orlando, Florida, and ran across what at the time was Medi Corporation with their HPS and they had a new pediatric version of that. But at the conference they had an HPS there and I'm like, wow, this is the first time I've ever seen a simulator that was breathing and had pulses and did all the things that like, this is really cool, we need to do this. And started like, okay, you have a pediatric version. Got to see that and took about 18 months to convince the hospital to spend that kind of money on a human patient simulator. But we did. We were successful in doing that Dr Patterson was part of that like, okay, this is pretty cool.
Tom LeMaster:And we got our first simulator and the rest is history. The next thing, you know, it was growing. We put it in courses, residents, nurses this is the greatest thing. That was the excitement that was building. So early on. We got introduced just by, almost by accident, being at an EMS conference. The simulator was at the. It's important to go onto the showroom floors because you never know what you're going to find. And the next thing you know, here we are, we have a simulator, and then we have more simulators and the program just started growing and we continued on.
Tom LeMaster:Well, Dr. Patterson was very involved in simulation and became president of the society and was part of what was, I think, way back then it was known as CATS. It was certification, accreditation, technician and I forget the systems or something. It was way back, I can't remember so far back, but these were just ideas. None of what we have today existed. And she's like, hey, you want to volunteer for this? And we said yes and not realizing that 20-some years later, here we are still doing it.
Tom LeMaster:This all started probably back in late 99, maybe 2000 or so. It's been quite a while. So the journey's been fantastic. And Cincinnati, our program guru, I was able to hire a couple of education specialists who were just amazing guys to work with. I knew them as they were both paramedics and at that time they were just amazing. And then we continued to grow the program. Then we hired another education specialist that I think everybody knows, Jen Manos. We hired her and some others and the program just continued growing. And, as you know, Jen and Mary Patterson's like hey, do you guys want to volunteer for these committees? And both Jen and I wound up saying yes. And now look where we are.
Deb Tauber:Tom, that is a long time.
Jerrod Jeffries:I mean almost 25 years I was just thinking what year was this? And then when you said late 90s, early 2000s, I was like whoa, that took me by surprise there.
Tom LeMaster:Yeah, we've been. You know, I think we got our first simulator in 2000 or so. It was in a basement work area. That's where we unpacked it and started. We spent like eight months figuring it out and trying to find a place to put it and trying to convince the hospital. Now that we have this thing, where are we going to use it?
Tom LeMaster:And then that's an interesting story in itself, because the hospitals were resistant to giving us space and after asking them about 10 times for space, they sent the architect down to really to say okay, you guys really don't need this kind of space for training. What are you doing? So we introduced this human patient simulator to the architect and a week later we were informed that we had a 5,000 square foot training center blocked off force. So the architect was the winner for us and that one is like all right, that worked. You know the hospital, they're looking, it's a mannequin. You know it's like they didn't. Today they would understand. Back then it was so new. I tell people I said we were doing simulation before. Simulation was cool.
Jerrod Jeffries:So that would be a good t-shirt for you, Tom. We should see if we can, yeah right, so it's simulated, but after. My next question, though, is do you have a favorite or like a most impactful similar story? Because I don't know if you can really top that one, but I'll give you a shot if you want to try.
Tom LeMaster:That's my journey story, right? You know when I, when I hear that is, you're asking about simulations, people ask me about two impactful simulations. And what are the impactful simulations? I've dealt with and there are two that always come to mind. One we were running a simulation. It was fast, it was with Dr Patterson. She was there and actually going to and debriefed it.
Tom LeMaster:But we ran the simulation in the pediatric emergency room and we had an embedded participant who happened to be a very popular emergency medicine physician and was going to and today is the director of their residency program. So everybody knows this very popular, just a super nice guy and the guy that you want to be taking care of your child If you show up in the emergency room, right, he's our embedded. So he's our embedded participant, but he's actually the attending physician in the emergency room that day. And we brought in a patient. The scenario was a near drowning was a scenario at the time. It's different today. It's a near drowning patient full of cardiopulmonary arrest, and our embedded participant told this group of trauma team and it was a five year old patient. He actually had them, shocking the patient with 360 jewels multiple times and no one questioned it at all, but you could see the look of the faces during the simulation and during the debriefing. The question was posed to one of the staff says I noticed when they were defibrillating the patient, you had a strange look on your face and the nurse said, yeah, that's not what we were learning in pals and I wasn't sure why we were doing it.
Tom LeMaster:And almost everybody in that room said yeah, we thought that too, but no one spoke up and the attending physician said look guys, and we revealed at that moment he was asked to do that and he looked at them and he said look, I get up the same way you do every morning. I get dressed the same way you do. I make mistakes. I'm not perfect. If you see me doing something that doesn't make sense, say something. And the power of that moment when he told them all to challenge him was unbelievable. I mean it was just opened up the doors to a more safe environment for those children. Now I mean it was just amazing because everybody in that room was pals certified. Everybody wanted to do the best they could. Everybody was doing the best they could, but the authority gradient of that physician they all thought he, because they knew him, respect him thought it was great, he could not possibly make a mistake. But he clarified yeah, we're all human, we all can do this.
Deb Tauber:That's a great story.
Tom LeMaster:The other insight you that was just unbelievable that I experienced was children's hospital is a wonderful hospital and they have outdoor play deck on the roof of one of their buildings and it's very safe, you know, just a wonderful place. So we thought why not let's? And we got to a point in Sensei Children's that we were able to do 10 simulations a month anywhere we wanted to in the hospital. So we found this play deck. We're like this looks like a lot of fun. So we actually simulated a five year old child with child life therapy. We're up on the deck with this child and the child suffers a bee sting and has an anaphylactic reaction to the bee sting. So that happens with the embedded participant of the mom. We have the child life therapist with the child. We have the simulator having an allergic reaction. She runs over, pushes the code button there's a code button on the on this deck for emergencies and goes back and tends to the child. And it was like 10 minutes past and no one showed up and it's like okay. So she ran in and finally found someone and code team was notified. What we discovered in that was that that code button had never been activated. So when they pushed it, nothing happened. So at that point I realized the power of Insight, you and system evaluation and testing, even before you open the place, and we do have.
Tom LeMaster:I do have another story that was amazing where we we had an help free standing emergency room that when we ran the simulations everything worked great.
Tom LeMaster:You know, there was no patients, there was just simulation. Before we opened the doors, this kind of drove, this open the doors, nothing happened, everything's running great. They said, hey, we're close to an interstate, we might get two patients at once. So we put two patients at the same time into the shock trauma room and they're trying to manage both patients simultaneously and could not get enough oxygen to either patient. And they determined that the airflow when you're doing two patients at the same time, it was too much of a drain and none of oxygen pressure. So engineering just had to go and tweak that wonderful thing to find out well, before you get to real patients in there. Those are the power of simulation in system evaluation, system testing, looking for late and safety threats. We find a late and safety threat of a code button that doesn't work before that really is needed. You can't buy that kind of. I don't think I can top those three stories.
Jerrod Jeffries:Those are great ones, those are my stories for you.
Tom LeMaster:You know, when you ask me about hackful simulation, it makes you a believer real quick that simulare is incredible work, Incredible work in simulation to be done.
Deb Tauber:Yeah, those are great stories. Thank you. Now, Tom. Where do you see the future of simulation going?
Tom LeMaster:I actually would see it going. It's going to become more of a day to day thing. When we look at other industries airline industry, military, nuclear power and that kind of stuff where their simulation is a norm, right, I think we're going to get to a point where simulation is a norm, is unexpected in health care. We're still a ways off, I think, and we're still working through that. But why not, right? I mean, we've had many, I shouldn't say many. It just seems like in the news recently there's been events around the airline situation and certainly with the, you know the dramatic landing on the Hudson. But you know, you see an engine fire, you see different things happening, right. I mean, it's a business, but they practice that and they simulate that and they do it a lot and it matters, right, because everybody's landing safely, and why would we not want to try to mirror that? I think, where?
Tom LeMaster:it's going I think at some point we may get to the point where accrediting bodies are going to say ask questions at a hospital or in health care organizations, say, do you do simulation training? And if the answer is no, they're going to say why not? I think we'll probably get to a point where an organization is going to, you know, if there's a serious safety event, there's going to say what training are you doing? Or what are you doing to fix it? And if simulation is appropriate, we're probably going to have to demonstrate that we're doing good simulation to help correct that problem. You know, is it a teamwork, is it a communication? Is it a system thing? You know, I would almost see as even before an institution, you know even before an institution opens, doing a lot of simulation, just check systems, you know.
Jerrod Jeffries:Previous stories. Harp on that perfectly.
Tom LeMaster:Exactly. I mean our institute, our program is our hospital here is building an emergency center several miles, quite a distance away I am anticipating that we will be. The sim center is going to be asked to do simulations in there before it opens, to look at systems. And it's not only just you know, is everything working, but where should things be appropriately placed? You know, and you know what, what makes sense to not the architect to put a what certain things in a drawer, but what works for nursing and medicine, to where that's will be located. You know, I think we're getting going, moving closer and closer to a point where it becomes the norm. It becomes more of every day. Right now, though, we're you know it's we're not quite, we're not there yet. Not everybody's doing it and nor can they, you know, because it is expensive, it's a big deal. We're going to have to find ways to make that happen. So I think we're mimic those other industries that have proven simulation works. I think we're we're getting real close to proving it works.
Tom LeMaster:Here I mean, we a lot of anecdotal stuff and we have research that's occurring, but it's hard to prove. And if you're doing a simulation, how do you prove that what you did in simulation prevented something from happening. You know you, you don't know. I mean we have many stories, is some stories here, even you know all. You did a simulation for a seizure patient or this or that, and next, the next week, we had that patient and worked really. You know, the team worked wonderfully. We did an amazing just in time simulation training for a critical or OB patient coming to the or, with five different healthcare teams in the room, and we practiced that sim on a Friday and baby was born on Monday and it was a high risk baby, high risk delivery, a lot of potential complications. It went very, very well. I think we're going to get to that point. It's going to take us a while to still make that the norm and now that everybody has the resources to do that, I appreciate your responses.
Deb Tauber:Thank you very much. And because so many people are going to, well, we're going to go into virtual reality. We're going to. You know everything's going to go into VR, but it's just not going to be the case. It's.
Jerrod Jeffries:I don't believe. Well, to that point, deb, though it's like some people are stuck in their bubble, right, they don't understand how these rural areas, or even back to the Tom got placed for his HPS or high fidelity simulator because of an architect. Some schools and organizations are still at that point. We talked to you know our bubble, and we, okay, I'm looking at this VR AR,MS, like that is cool stuff, that's the shiny new toy, and I think we all love it. We all think it's cool. But we have to keep bringing everybody up, and I mean to the tagline earlier raise your benchmark. We have to keep making sure everybody's educated in order to make sure that we're bringing everybody along and pushing the whole industry in the right direction.
Jerrod Jeffries:So really resonate with your point of making sure that that is kind of the necessity before anything opens and systems testing, implementation and so on, to make sure everything's smooth. It really resonates.
Tom LeMaster:Yeah, and there's VR and AR. You're right, it's, there's a place for it, but there's certain things you physically have to be there to do with the team and with the communication. There's a lot of training opportunity, but I think it's not going to replace I don't think it's going to replace the simulation experience that we all have to be at some point in time.
Jerrod Jeffries:So speaking of some of this futuristic stuff. We'll look back here for a few years. Did any anything change, or the lessons learned during the pandemic, and did your goals from the school or from the SSH organization shift for the one, three or five years?
Tom LeMaster:So we did have some lessons learned during the pandemic. You know, you come in one day and there's, the students are told to not come to school. It's like, okay, where'd everybody go? That was a little odd, although the students weren't here, because of the program that we have and are created, we serve our hospital, which is immediately next door. So, transition to practice things didn't stop. Nursing education, those things did not stop.
Tom LeMaster:You know, we have a sim team here that at that time had some team members that were very concerned about COVID and catching it and it's us, if I believe. So we're very concerned and had, you know, health issues and stuff they were really worried about. So what we did was pivot. I said, okay, our mission this is still our mission of providing simulation and education and to all of and to all these different groups, how can we do that? So we created it and because we have a couple of team members who were concerned about going to the hospital and others were like, what can we do to help in the hospital? So we created what we affectionately call a home team and an away team. And no, we didn't get special jerseys, but you know we could have, but we had a home team and away team. So that way we still kept the things that needed to be done in the sim center in the sim center and there were some task training, some simulations going on. That was fine.
Tom LeMaster:But in the hospital we pivoted during that time and changing away from the teamwork communication focus and really switched toward caregiver safety, dawning at doffing. We had an amazing little setup that we created and the team my si op specialist were almost arguing and fighting and doing rock paper scissors, lizard spock over who gets to do this because we wire or set up the simulators with air-lizing tubes next to its face. And as the caregivers were managing the patients, we were just blasting them with GLO-GERM that was aerosolized. So they were getting this idea the patients coughing or exposing and then we would show them their exposures. But we really focused on can you don, can you doff, can you take care of this patient safely, focused on our caregivers. Yes, there's teamwork communication pieces of that, but we really want to make sure we kept those folks safe. So during that time that was really the focus of our insights use. So we really changed. Years we weren't doing what we like we do today. We're not doing that kind of stuff. Now it's really back to teamwork, process, systems, communication. It didn't change our goals over the for the next few years, but it certainly gave us the idea that we definitely could pivot and be valuable to the organization and that was, I think, the important piece. You know, we're definitely demonstrating our organizational value here with that For the next few years.
Tom LeMaster:Our goals here at UF is really we're currently fully staffed. We know that there's some growth in the programs as far as where we're going with insight to training. We have lots of units that are really asking for insight to training. Now At the same time they're bringing some of our teams into the sim n for the task training piece. So, honestly, over the next one to three years our really focus is going to be fine tuning that and making it stronger, making it better. We're anticipating adding fellows with simulation in the next year. We are, and that's a huge growth. We may actually wind up with two or research is continuing or it's not. That we're going to. We can't expand space. There's no intense of that, but there isn't intend to do more insight you. We do go off INSITU you. We have a couple of freestanding emergency rooms. We're doing some we're just getting ready to start this fall Some amazing work in our internal medicine clinics. For insight, you, we have a freestanding or freestanding psychiatric hospital that we're doing simulation work already with them and we'll continue that work and really for the next three or five years it's really to improve that. Not that we're growing, but we're going to really focus on meeting the needs of our teams out there.
Tom LeMaster:If you ask me about SSH, I'm running for president, so if I become president for the next three years, I'll be in that role and I think there's much we can do to promote simulation in a couple of arenas. If you like, I can go ahead and talk about that a little bit. For me, I think one arena, as we've mentioned before, is what's the future? How do we bring our joint commission or CMS or accrediting bodies and help them understand and know? And what is SSH? What is simulation? How can it help? What are we doing?
Tom LeMaster:I think people know about it but still don't know a lot about it. You know of the power and what are we really doing, and SSH is an amazing organization with a lot of resources that could help and I think we really need to focus on that. That would be, and I know that the board is all in for that. It's part of the strategic plan, if you will. The other piece is it's kind of touched on it before when we talk about all these smaller organizations. I think there's a lot of small SIM centers out there or people trying to do simulation, and how can we help them? How can we bring them along? And they may not even know we are here, you know. So we need to get to them and help them in some way, form or fashion. Can't say I know exactly what that looks like, but I think we need to really really try to bring that group along, just if it's patient safety driven, so we can actually push that out into the critical access hospitals, the smaller institutions, the rural areas of our the international.
Tom LeMaster:Yeah, well, international is yes, and that was my other thing I wanted to speak of. No, no, it's, international is a big deal. I think the accreditation council right now is we actually have a meeting later this week which we're gonna be creating a proposal for the board to address some of the international pieces. How do we reach them? And there's an accreditation component, but I think there's a lot of programs internationally that are out there. How can we reach those small programs right? Maybe that's through organizations within that country? So how can we help them right On accreditation purposes? There are some internationally accredited programs, but that's not available to everybody and it's not easy to get to. How can we improve that?
Tom LeMaster:And that's one of the things I would really like to focus on and continue that push again as we move forward that you know.
Tom LeMaster:You're probably gonna ask me about accreditation, what we could do, and is there a way for us to make it easier for organizations in other countries to become accredited under the society standards? And we believe there is. We believe that we can actually create a process to do that. I don't wanna say too much about it because it's under development, but we have a great proposal in mind. We're gonna set up a system to really be able to reach the other countries internationally, just really make it a good pathway for them. We wanna make sure you can be accredited under the SSH standards because they are fantastic standards. With that in mind, I do think there's some great work that we can be doing and we need to partner a much better relationship with some of our other organizations in simulation, and part of that process is how do we do that? So I think that is for me, if I am asking, looking at one to three to five years, that would keep anybody busy.
Jerrod Jeffries:Yeah, and I've jotted some things down because I wanna see if I can recap. So the past and the pandemic you're refocusing, doubled down on your mission, creating these home and away teams. Now you're back to normalcy really, if the future for UF is more pushing towards that in situ area but also tapped on resources, really in size but really helping the quality. And then with SSH you're looking to make sure that you're bringing those power and numbers and data towards the Joint Commission to be recognized even more, so helping the little guys to bring them up and make sure that their benchmarks high, helping reaching international organizations and showing that everybody's not alone but there is a power and community here. And also, with accreditation, pushing some of the partnerships domestically here in the US, as well as internationally, absolutely.
Tom LeMaster:Right very well said.
Deb Tauber:Right, I heard you say essentially growing the pie and not slicing it into more pieces where we're separated, but making it bigger so we can work together. Now, tom, as an accreditor you are an accreditor and I know that your site was recently accredited why don't you talk a little bit about that journey and maybe fire some of our listeners up to want to go ahead and join us on the journey of becoming reviewers? Because as we once again grow that pie, we're gonna need more reviewers in this space and I think that people underestimate the ability to become a reviewer and how much it means to be a reviewer like as a person, how wonderful of an experience it is.
Tom LeMaster:Oh yeah, the journey of becoming a reviewer and the accreditation journey has just been incredible. So way back when I was on this accreditation program, starting down the pathway of doing accreditation and stuff so I've been in this so long that, since I had children's, was one of the pilot for the accreditation standards so we agreed that we would put our program up in front of the reviewers as a pilot to see how these standards play out, and our agreement would be that we would not apply for official accreditation for two years and then it's been an accredited program since that time. And then five years ago our mission right away was to get University of Florida's program accredited. And going through the accreditation process for any program is a great journey, if you will. You learn so much about your program. You're able to document and basically solidify your program just merely going through it, and in both programs I did same thing happened. There's so much that we do so many great things that are happening, but we do them without writing them down and the accreditation process really forces you to document the amazing work that you're doing and then, as a reviewer, you apply for accreditation and now you become a reviewer. You have the opportunity to visit other programs see how things are done. It's just an amazing experience. It's really how do you buy that right To becoming a reviewer? And getting to experience that part of the process is just an amazing thing.
Tom LeMaster:Accreditation for us it validates what we do and it really is validating our work. It validates us when people come say, oh, I just need to do this. No, we're an accredited program, we need to follow these guidelines. It gives us everything to stand on and I do believe somewhere down the road that we're going to see programs. And yes, you can do sim work. It's recognized by a state government as long as you're accredited or your educators are certified. Accreditation is five years. What's your budget for it? You plan for it and the value of it is you know you're able. You're getting an incredible amount of information back from an organization that's outside reviewers. The board of review hears about your program. There's so many good things around the accreditation process that would hope programs would find a way to get to that point where they can become accredited.
Jerrod Jeffries:I think one of my favorite parts is always the IMSH, when it shows everybody who's been accredited. It's such a party and everybody's so jovial and it's such a big celebration. So that just is the cherry on top for many programs too, I think.
Tom LeMaster:Yeah, but you know what's hard and we have the certificate that we get our picture taken with them, and then I have to take it back and give it to the next. It's like it feels weird.
Jerrod Jeffries:These are the hidden secrets now.
Tom LeMaster:Yeah, it's like because nobody carries it off anymore. You know, if anybody who's from an accredited program. If you're interested, when we do our call for reviewers, definitely put your name in the hat, if you will, and apply for that, because we need so many reviewers. We have to find a way to be able to onboard people efficiently and effectively, so that's a big task and some really awesome folks are working on that.
Jerrod Jeffries:What a great resource that previous accreditors and people who have been through this same process are those mentors and those that are being their shoes and understand the situation. I think there's so much power in that, especially when going up to 300 organizations. Now there's a lot of depth of knowledge and I don't say sympathy, but you can relate because it's a lengthy process that you said you budget for it. There's a lot of different hurdles one has to cross and to understand what everybody's going through is powerful.
Tom LeMaster:Absolutely.
Deb Tauber:This has been a great interview and let's go ahead and share with our listeners a couple things here. One is what's the biggest thing you'd like them to know, like when you learned it more of an aha moment, and do you have anything for us?
Tom LeMaster:Well, probably the take home. There are times when you're doing simulations and tongue-in-cheek say there's non-believers in the room and they haven't embraced simulation yet, or a group hasn't. Just be persistent, be patient, they'll come along, keep doing the work. Sometimes you can get a little frustrated because folks just aren't buying it, they don't get it, they don't understand. Then eventually they'll be a sim that you'll run. They're there and they'll see the aha moment. And sometimes it just takes time. For me it's be persistent, be patient. As the take home. It's been a journey. It doesn't happen instantly. Not everybody thinks it's great just yet. There's a lot in simulation. It's just not purchasing a simulator and thinking it's magically going to happen. It takes some skill, development and operations.
Deb Tauber:Thank you so much, Jared. Anything you want to add?
Jerrod Jeffries:This is wonderful. I love how many hats you really wear and trajectory through simulation, Tom. I think that, as with the saying of one simulation, you've seen one it's. Everybody who talks through this podcast has different stories and their journey through is also unique From academic insights and then Chamberlain from the industry to professional organizations and growth and being able to build this all up. I love your voice and what you're looking to accomplish. I hope to see that the one, three and five year goals that continue to play out power much, but you'll certainly have my support within that.
Tom LeMaster:Thanks. It is amazing when you look at all the different programs what people are doing, but yet we're all here at the end of the day for simulation and doing excellent and amazing work in simulation. We're all in the same mission. If you will, successful simulation.
Deb Tauber:Excellent, excellent. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time and we wish you the best of luck and support with your election coming up.
Tom LeMaster:You haven't voted. Vote by the end of Wednesday.
Deb Tauber:All right, everyone. Thank you and happy simulating.
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