Breaking Barriers in Healthcare Education: The Rise of AR and VR Simulation Sponsored by ArborXR

Title: Breaking Barriers in Healthcare Education: The Rise of AR and VR Simulation

To watch the full-length video version of this podcast and see Bing's ChatGPT in action, click here:  https://youtu.be/z_wywvjSkoI

Study Citation: "Assessing the Financial Sustainability of High-Fidelity and Virtual Reality Simulation for Nursing Education; A Retrospective Case Analysis" Link: https://journals.lww.com/cinjournal/Citation/2022/09000/Assessing_the_Financial_Sustainability_of.6.aspx 

Description:
In this episode of The Sim Cafe Podcast, Hosts Deb Tauber and Jerrod Jeffries interview Tess McKinney and Devin Marble to discuss the intersection of AR and VR in healthcare simulation. The conversation covers the challenges facing the adoption of virtual and augmented reality in healthcare, including issues of cost and hardware. The hosts also explore the potential benefits of gamification in simulation, such as improved engagement, motivation, decision-making skills, teamwork, and collaboration. They examine the ways in which simulation can help improve patient safety and student outcomes and discuss the challenges of validating the usage of these tools. The hosts consider the future of healthcare simulation and its coexistence with high-fidelity simulators, with a particular focus on the potential for mixed reality, virtual reality, and augmented overlays to enhance healthcare simulation. Finally, the hosts and guests discuss the implications of ChatGPT in healthcare for the professionals and patients in this new world of artificial intelligence (AI); ending with examples of its use and integration with Microsoft’s Bing search engine.

Arbor XR website: https://arborxr.com/

Innovative SimSolutions.
Your turnkey solution provider for medical simulation programs, sim centers & faculty design.

Transcript

Disclaimer: 0:00

The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of anyone at Innovative Sim Solutions or our sponsors.

Arbor XR: 0:13

This week's podcast is brought to you by XR Industry Leaders, a podcast by Arbor XR."XR Industry Leaders" features co-founders, Brad Scoggin and Will Stackable interviewing leaders using AR/VR in enterprise education and healthcare. Each episode is an opportunity for XR champions to reflect on their organization's journey with immersive technology. Guests include true AR VR pioneers from Amazon's, Stanford, Walmart, UPS, Pfizer, and more. Listen to industry leaders to uncover pitfalls, lessons learned and secrets that you can use to help grow XR in your organization. Available today on ArborXR.com and all major streaming platforms!

Intro: 0:59

Welcome to The Sim Cafe, a podcast produced by the team at Innovative Sim Solutions, edited by Shelly Houser. Join our host, Deb Tauber and co-host Jarrod Jeffries as they sit down with subject matter experts from across the globe to reimagine clinical education and the use of simulation. So pour yourself a cup of relaxation, sit back, tune in, and learn something new from The Sim Cafe.

Deb: 1:39

Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe today. I'm your host, Deb Tauber, and I'm here with co-host Jarrod Jeffries and we are thrilled to have Tess McKinney and Devin Marble as our guests. And we're gonna talk about virtual reality, augmented reality, Chat GPT,<laugh>, and a couple other things. So I'll give you a little bit of background. Tess McKinney is a visionary leader behind XR Renegades, a subsidiary of Firework Media Studio. I met Tess about a year, year and a half ago, and she's just been so helpful to me in so many ways. I feel like I'm sitting in a room of really smart IT people and just people who know about the industry. So we're really fortunate and I'm thankful to each and every one of you for all you've done to help me when I call up with questions.<laugh> Devin, A little bit about Devin. I met Devin kinda serendipitously the same way, and he's a certified emergency paramedic in uh, eight years. He's performed most of his patient care in the hosp ital at Tuscan Medical Center. He's adjunct faculty at Southern Arizona's largest community college. So I'm sure we'll hear more about everybody as we move through this interview. So thank you very, very much and let's go ahead and get started. Jarrod, do you wanna take it from here?

Jarrod: 3:03

Yeah, thanks Deb and Dev and Tess, great to connect again and great seeing you both at IMSH last month.

Devin: 3:11

Yeah, it was great to see you.

Jarrod: 3:12

Also, just your feedback on Deb, is there any other caller you want to give us around kind of your foray into alternative realities, that being virtual, mixed, augmented, any other thing that you might be be going there?

Tess: 3:26

So yeah, one instance kind of happened, so I actually kind of got started in like the 360 photo video world about seven years ago and started doing some of those. It just got crazy. Um, from there I started getting job offers and people were like, oh, you should do this. And it kind of started into more of the, the VR development side. When I worked, I, I worked full-time for the University of Nebraska Medical Center and, and I started working for the College of Nursing there and they were like, you're interested in this, we wanna do this, we wanna do it ahead of everyone. Can you help us? And so we built our own VR products, we scratched and scrounged for money to do that and you know, got some grants and, and worked that out. My main platform kind of came out of, I actually attended, IM stage about four years ago and someone said in a room, we're healthcare professionals and we don't know where to go to find this technology, so is there a place that you can put all of these companies and have sort of a list of who's who in that world because we're just not in that world. And so that was a way I built a platform on a website of all the companies that are in ar, vr and alternative realities so that we can help not only educators but healthcare specialists as well.

Jarrod: 4:48

I love that. I mean, whenever there's a problem, you at least of course delivered the solution. So that helped a lot of people I'm sure and still is.

Tess: 4:55

Yeah. Yep. Every day I get those questions. So it's been super cool to see how it's developed from 360 to augmented reality. It's just, it's kind of passed over everything and people are implemented in every day, which is super cool.

Jarrod: 5:11

Great. Thanks. And, and Devin, what about yourself?

Devin: 5:15

So I started out in television out there in entertainment and decided that I was just gonna do a complete seismic shift. So I became an EMT, I was gonna be a firefighter. And then a long story short, when I moved back to Tucson, which was my hometown and you know, I married my high school sweetheart and we're getting our feet under us, I fell back in love with medicine. I wanted to be a veterinarian when I was a kid. And I realized that I can do this. That guy's a doctor, I can do that, right? Because I was working alongside them in the hospital. I became a paramedic. I started teaching the paramedic college, which I still adjunct faculty there today. And I was pre-med this close to submitting my application at University of Louisville Medical Center. I talked to the dean, she checked all my credentials. She goes, you're good. Just submit. And it was January, 2020 and I had this like gut-wrenching feeling and I told my wife, I don't think I'm gonna apply to med school, which was a, a bomb. That was the plan. It was like five years in the making. Wow. And I canceled it and I told her, I think I need to lean into digital. I just feel it. It's, there's, I'm getting into virtual reality. I think that there's something here to be done that could also be a part of patient care, which I miss to this day. I haven't done patient care in a little bit and I miss it, but I get to dabble in it now virtually. And when I made that shift, the pandemic hit and our community college was like, oh my gosh, how are we gonna get our paramedic students through their competency goals? And I built them a VR studio and remote virtual classes. I taught all of their educators how to do it. And that was the beginning for me. And I haven't stopped since. And I love it. And I think that there's a reach that digital and remote and virtual immersive technologies have to people who are underserved, underrepresented, not just the Harvards of the world. And that is extreme power and it allows us to really reach out and train at scale. And, and, and that's very exciting to me. So I'm very happy to be here.

Jarrod: 7:10

Yeah. And and thank you both so much for being there. I love that you both came from different sides of the coin in a way. So from this though, being on both sides, was there, and, and I won't mention the metaverse yet or go into it, but was there a large interest or, or a lot of excitement around gaming when you're a kid? Or was this more of something that I love healthcare playing and doctors and want to push forward or, or did it come from the game inside.

Tess: 7:40

<laugh>? You know, um, for me, yeah. Yeah. I literally like live and breathe. I have multiple headsets. I had, you know, the Google Cardboard when it first came out. I was like, yeah, this is super awesome. I don't have the greatest setup. Like Devin does<laugh> in my house. But I am a huge gamer. It pays to be a nerd. It was not super cool when I was a kid to be a nerd now it totally is. Um, which is great, you know, absolutely in it. But yeah, gaming can be so many different avenues. It can be an escape room that's using paper objects. It's such a wide variety. And then being able to take that paper game and turn it into something that's immersive in you're, you're doing it and, and it really helps healthcare. I haven't always been in healthcare. I've almost always been in education, which education has no funding. So then that was another way to like make it and fun, interactive learning and that's all. I mean, kids gain today, that's just what it is. Like they are on their phones or they're on an iPad certainly. And that's how they learn today. So it's definitely a super cool thing to see.

Devin: 8:45

You know, one of my cousins started a video game company back in the day. So I grew up and I would always go over to my cousin Steve's house, right? He is my dad's age. And um, and so he is like, wow, Steve, what'd you got today? And he, he made a game called Cruise and USA, I dunno if you know that game, but it's an old Nintendo 64 racing game by Midway. And that started his company and now he does arcade games. He does like the Batman arcade game and he's got arcade games in his living room. So growing up and gaming with my friends, it was always more about the camaraderie and the engagement together. Sometimes an escape from reality. Right.

Jarrod: 9:21

You were a great best friend growing up then have ever...

Devin: 9:24

<laugh>. Oh man. Yeah. And absolutely. And when I think about gaming today and kind of what that means, I prefer to use the term engaging or engagement. Cuz that's really what we're talking about. I think these kids will call them, I think I'm a kid today, but they're, they've all got iPads, they've all got phones. It's really just sucking their attention. It's, it's their engagement. And so positioning important and educational information into that device or into their place, meet them where they are actually is a very powerful tool for re-engagement and retention of that student's attention. And that's super important. So I think understanding the gaming landscape and how people can feel like they have a fun competition going, that there's not a lot at stake is just about getting the little digital trophy or the badge, but they're learning so important. Yeah. Or points, it's so valuable, why wouldn't, why wouldn't we want them to have fun while they are saving someone's life virtually or something like that.

Jarrod: 10:25

Mm-hmm.<affirmative> certainly. Beautiful. So I would love to actually talk even more about this Activision and the Microsoft pieces. Yeah. And so on. But, but we'll stick to the point. So next one is with alternative realities going into healthcare and, and we see this kind of growing as obviously we saw at IMSH and the maturity of this, uh, discipline or technology in healthcare. What lessons can be learned from that of gaming that you know, or other particular industries that you wanna, you wanna shout out Tess, we'll start with you and then go to Devin again.

Tess: 10:58

Yeah, so particularly there is a lot of maybe disconnect between gaming and healthcare. Four years ago at IMSH, there was like, I think three um, XR companies there and now there's, I think there was 17 to 20. So it has grown exponentially. And I think what a lot of especially companies are not understanding is yeah, we have these products but we aren't helping the healthcare facilitators put them into curriculum or there's just not a lot of that. But what's hurting is that healthcare is not necessarily, not everyone has the time or has the faculty to say, oh yeah, I'm gonna pull this in and use it with this specific piece of curriculum. So I think that's kind of something that's standing in the way of everyone using this. There's also some issues with costs that people aren't quite getting. It's such a thing that's so ahead of, it's hard because it's somewhat ahead of its time and somewhat not. While I've been waiting for it for seven years and I'm like, yeah, I cannot believe this is exploding right now. I think it will, I mean we're only, we've only tapped into maybe the, the first 15% of people we aren't in gonna be, you know, to a hundred percent at least maybe two years. I'd love to say it's gonna happen in six months, but it's just not. Deb, do you have something to say?

Deb: 12:22

I, I think your time is way, way off. I think<laugh>, if you go with that adoption curve, I think that there's just so few people in healthcare that are buying into this, right? Just cause they're so used to doing it the way that they've always done it. I mean if you think about medical records, uh, right IT, electronic medical records, I mean that was what, two decades and we're still, we're still struggling with it and

Tess: 12:50

It's, it's more if you walk into a hospital, everyone has a computer and yes it took some time, but there are, I think there are ways out there to get this kind of technology back into it. Cu z m annequin simulation took 20 years maybe for everyone to potentially buy it. But because it's, we're just live in a digital world and so everyone has a phone, everyone has a laptop and phones didn't take that long before they, everyone had a phone and everyone's accessing it. That's kind of where I sit on that matter as far as getting that into healthcare systems. But there's a lot of issues with that where cost is concerned and availability and decisions and you know, it's old versus new and what's better. And so Devin,

Devin: 13:40

I think that you bring up a very interesting point that kind of is one of the biggest challenges facing aAR/VR and how it integrates with healthcare because it's seen as a game, right? We're gamifying simulation using these technologies that are used for games. Meta would not have gone into the virtual reality space if it wasn't because of gaming. It wasn't because of simulation. And so I think it's like five major things, right? If we can help the community around simulation understand that gamification can improve engagement and motivation, it can improve decision making skills, you can foster teamwork and collaboration, you can do automatic feedback mechanisms or remote feedback mechanisms, which is extremely valuable for a student to receive feedback in the comfort of their own home or in the privacy of their room where they can be silly and make mistakes in a gamified environment. And games make things more accessible because it's a level playing field when you're working in a gamification environment, you can witness diversity on all ends of the spectrum in a gamified environment, right? Or in a digital environment. But there are these huge challenges in simulation like, like Tess was talking about, some of them, not the least of which is just overcoming hardware, right? Right. Overcoming this adoption of all of these new gadgets that you need. And I think one of the biggest challenges is there needs to be a validation of the usage of these tools in order for them to be adopted widely. And that's really tough because that means that we need to be testing and validating these gamified tools to show the community that there is a return on your investment and that return on your investment is patient safety goes up and student outcome goes up. And in the first day of work there is competent as a first year right nurse because they saw 10 or 15 times as many patients. And so I think that this holistic look of this is so valuable, but we can't just reach across and shake someone and force them to say this is valuable, don't you believe me? You really have to show them proof in the pudding.

Tess: 15:46

Well one of the other things is some simulation centers had high fidelity mannequins because their institution could afford'em. Whereas this is kind of giving them the, the opportunity to be on a level playing field with everyone.

Jarrod: 16:01

I love Devin, your, your piece about gamification being engagement, motivation, decision making, collaboration, feedback and accessibility.

Devin: 16:08

Yeah. Yeah. So

Jarrod: 16:10

Then all these seem highly relevant to that of healthcare simulation world. Do you see this being the future of healthcare simulation? Do you see it coexisting? And if so, what do you think are the biggest challenges of making it cohabit or replacing, to your point, test these, these high fidelity simulators or how does that work both of your guys in mind?

Tess: 16:34

So in my mind, eventually we'll get to mixed reality and we'll have those augmented overlays so we can utilize the glasses and the mannequins. People always ask, you know, should I get rid of my mannequins because I'm getting vr? And I'm like, absolutely not. You already paid for that. We'll leave it alone. I don't ever suggest that they should just do VR either. There are definitely differences. There's just not haptics yet. I developed a a game or we helped develop a game about sepsis. That's something that some people will never see in their college lifetime. And then when they go into the field, hey, they might recognize that because they played these games. I think that's something to be said to keep those options open.

Jarrod: 17:17

So do you think that institutions will be old school if they're not using mixed reality?

Tess: 17:22

Correct. I think they already are. I mean, not using virtual reality as well as, you know, having a, a mannequin or a patient simulator. I see that. But some are falling, they're already falling behind. And like I said, 15% of people are currently using it. They're using it in a way to maybe just add like an addition to one class where they could be utilizing it for every class. But then again, you need faculty, you need someone who's in fully invested simeks need to be trained on how to do all this stuff. Um, but right now there is a huge, huge disconnect between it. You're

Devin: 18:00

Hitting a nail,

Tess: 18:01

Oh man,

Devin: 18:02

You're hitting a nail on the head right there.

Tess: 18:03

I go in and anti talk to educational IT groups and they're like, oh, we don't need to learn that. Oh, you have no idea. They don't even know how to hook up mannequins. And the simtech is who get it gets followed up or I mean, everything falls on them. But yeah, that's just, that's the hard part is getting all those groups of people together. So once that happens, I think it'll push forward.

Jarrod: 18:25

Do you expect that the institution, if that's, you know, say an academic institution should then be purchasing X amount of headsets or whatever for their students? Or should that students kind of bring their own device such as we do a laptops today.

Tess: 18:39

So right now I'm seeing both. I'm seeing people having the students buy right now, a lot of'em aren't. They're more of the college is buying the headset and then shipping out and returning and so they, so

Jarrod: 18:55

Almost like a used textbook in a way.

Tess: 18:56

Yeah. Such as that.

Jarrod: 18:58

Thanks for that Tess and, and Devin, I I didn't mean to skip over you at all, but I wanna.

Devin: 19:02

No problem.

Jarrod: 19:02

Give me all your knowledge here

Devin: 19:03

I'm g onna just, I'm gonna unload on you guys, okay? Y es, y es. A nd I'm not gonna be gentle o n y ou. So I do think that there are going to be healthcare education colleges producing nurses or frontline workers that will not use mannequins. They will do it all virtually and then clinical hours there will of course be institutions that keep their mannequins and then use them and there will of course be the mix of both. Especially when so much money has been s ent on the real estate and the hardware that is sitting there and needs to be used. If I were to make that prediction that t heir colleges will find a balance of utilizing these in-person mannequin and simulation centers for testing. And so I do think that it's not going away and it is going to be a part of t he future and i t i s sticking around and I do think a lot of colleges are gonna embrace it a nd a lot o r a re not, they're not gonna w anna embrace it and you know, we're gonna have to help educate as we go along the way c uz all we wanna make sure is that they're producing the best students possible, the most competent h ealthcare workers possible. And so, um, if it's affordable and it's cost e ffective and it helps their metrics, those are the types of things that colleges should be adopting.

Jarrod: 20:11

Have you either, you found a rule of thumb of how much space or cost savings there are for, for AR/VR or these alternative realities compared to the traditional simulators? Is, is there a, is there an ROI that you guys throw out there or have seen that come up? Is there pattern?

Tess: 20:29

Good question. Yeah. Um, so I, I haven't, I, someone actually just asked me about that today. Um, they were like, well, you know, how much money do we save? You know, if we don't have wipes even, or we don't have to wipe up blood or we don't have to have blood, the cost saving is just exponential. I mean it's just unbelievable how, how different it is. So they're actually going to study that in their XR lab.

Devin: 20:56

I got a question for you Jared and Deb, what do we do about this? What do we do about staff staffing shortages like the teachers, these subject matter experts that are gonna produce our nursing shortage problem? Right. Cuz I see a conflict happening where, um, there's a potential solution that makes a single, uh, educator more effective. I can train more students with fewer staff. Okay. And that scares me, right, as an educator because now I'm being replaced. So immediately wall goes up, we're not gonna adopt this technology and what do we do about that? Because, um, what what I see that is, is a real, a real budding of the heads that the students actually feel the repercussions of and so does our healthcare system. And I'm not suggesting that our problems on the healthcare system are due to the educators. Not at all. You guys are, we are saving<laugh> the day without our nurse educators. We cannot solve our nursing shortage problems. But that is also why I want to empower them with new tools so they can be bigger, faster, stronger. So I ask you guys, what do we do about that conflict?

Deb: 22:15

That's a real conflict And, and I think to incorporate things slowly to start when you find your early adopters and then just lean into them. I mean that 80 20% rule, right? Um, as you were speaking of some of the things you could do with virtual reality, I started to think about when I worked in the emergency department, it would've been so wonderful to have little headsets set up for high risk, low frequency events. Like if you were gonna put in a central line, a chest tube, any of those things that you would do at a air quote, uh, skills day to get better at. So, uh, and I could see that as being a cost savings for in two ways. One, um, because you wouldn't have to have the manpower for a skills day and two because you would get those high risk low frequency events in to help with your patient management, sepsis, cardiac alert, uh, trauma, you know, any of those ten second emergencies or seconds to minutes emergencies that we discussed yesterday, identification of them.

Devin: 23:29

Hmm. I'd like to share something with you. So when you posed that question about return on investment and cost, I pinged one of our subject matter experts on our team to say, Hey, do you have that study? So this is a study that was published uh, late last year, September, 2022, assessing the financial sustainability of high fidelity and virtual reality simulation for nursing education. Overall virtual reality simulation education was determined to require 22% less time than high fidelity simulation education. The cost associated with virtual reality simulation was found to be 40% less expensive than the high fidelity simulation. The results demonstrate that VR simulation is financially advantageous resource conscious and it's a pedagogical option for nursing education. Meaning it does meet the pedagogy of our standards of practice of how we want to teach people because we can bend it to meet your needs the way you teach.

Jarrod: 24:26

So then that leads us to the final question here. Where do you see the future of healthcare simulation in 3, 5, 10 years from now?

Devin: 24:33

Okay, now it's time for me to crack my knuckles cuz I did my homework on this question. A lot of this technology and the options available to us are going to be dictated by the large companies that run and own and advance the technology for us. So let's just, I think we should just say out loud that if, if Facebook meta Oculus, if they hadn't invested billions into making that headset cheap mm-hmm<affirmative>, we would not be sitting where we are today. So thank our lucky stars that we've got some people just basically spending a lot of money to make these little screens on our faces work for us three to five years. So I think in three years VR will be accepted as a preferred standard of practice. I think it's gonna take five years for AR to enter the conversation and when it does in five years, there are going to be extremely low cost options and hardware. So I think any educational institutions that are listening to this should be aware that the hardware is going to get less expensive. I stand by that one pretty t pretty strong 10 years. Both VR and AR are gonna survive for the next 10 years. Now I don't think one of'em is going to absorb the other one. There's a lot of great pass-through technology happening with these headsets where there's cameras on the outside and you can, you can do like augmented reality type games with a VR headset, but ar will become better used when the haptics get better. Did you have a question Jared?

Jarrod: 26:00

No, I, I'm engaged. I I was just gonna say whenever you talk about this haptic feedback, always think of Ready Player one. I

Devin: 26:06

Don't Ready Player one. Yeah, yeah,

Jarrod: 26:07

Absolutely. I didn't mean to digress. Continue.

Devin: 26:10

Yeah, if you haven't seen Ready Player One, go watch it. It's, it's great. Um, okay so there has been a, if people haven't, I don't expect everyone to pay attention to it, that's fine. This, this is my job. There has been a humongous seismic shift between Microsoft Meta and Apple and there's a little bit of debate about exactly what is going down, but Microsoft has effectively shut down growth on their HoloLens and they license their IP to meta and that is huge when they license their ip. That now gives meta the ability to utilize this augmented reality technology that Microsoft has been the leader in for the last decade, right? In return Meta agrees that they're gonna place the Microsoft suite of products on all Oculus headsets. Okay, now think about this partnership for a minute. You guys all need to understand that is really good news. Now what about Apple? We know that Meta and Apple are always vying for the consumer competition and attention. And so Unity plays a picture in this. So I would say in that 10 year outlook you were asking me about, it would be hooves you to see if that software was built on Unreal Engine or if it was built on Unity. And the reason is because Unreal Engine is really great for movies, it's really great for video games. Unity is built for that. Unity is much easier to code on. It's, it's, you can use it on the computer or on a headset. It's, you know, allows for multiplayer. Like there's a lot more going on with it. That is a way heavier lift.

Tess: 28:05

And I heard different things about Microsoft and HoloLens and, and that, so I don't wanna disagree until I have proof, but I also like that Microsoft bought chat g p t because, or because then that will be integrated within their products. So if they integrate it into Meta's products, then that's even more fantastic. So that's super nice As far as like the three to five to tenure, I agree with Devin on some points. I do think that it will be widely adapted VR in five years. Most everyone will have it in some space and I do agree with the Unity call. That is something that I, it's so much easier to build in Unity. It's a lot cheaper, it's cost effective. Unity's a great partner. They love partnering with, you know, education and specifically healthcare they're in. Um, and so, you know, they, they wanna invest in in people in, in order to do that for the world. Um, so that's a good, good win for them as well. So yeah, I can't wait for the future. I can't wait to see, you know, what happens. I think there's so many good things happening in this space, especially for healthcare and education and I can't wait to be a part of it. So

Devin: 29:14

I know that we're, we're running low on time, but we did say we were gonna talk about Chat GPT in this episode for people< laugh> and I did a little homework and I do have something to show you guys if, uh, if you'll allow. Y eah. A ll r ight, so I have been granted early access to the chat GPT B ing migration and so I did something prior to this u h, podcast and if you're listening, I recommend that you pop on over to the YouTube channel version of this so that way you can see what I'm gonna show you. Okay? So I'm a parent, I've got a three a nd a h alf year o ld and u h, this is a common thing that you might put into t o Google, right? You might say toddler on the right h and side here i s Google on the left h and side here is the new Bing, the new c hat b etween B ing and so on the right h and side, common toddler, three fever, three days, no signs or symptoms like y ou m aybe type those keywords in. What do I do? I'm nervous. My k ids had a fever for three days and they s eem fine, but what's this mean? Call your doctor if the fever occurs for 12 weeks. Okay, I got it. Or 12 weeks old, three days, 72 hours, a bunch of l inks. It says colds, flus, other viral infections most common cause. Okay sure that's true. I kind of have to sift through all these links, right? To find the answer of choice that's gonna make me feel comfortable and confident as a parent. Okay? So I d on't k now if you guys know the answer but I know the answer without searching this because I went through this with my kids a nd the a nswer's roseola very common. So what happens when you type the same thing into a search engine that's i ntegrated with an AI chat b ot? O kay, so now I pop into chat GPT and I say, Hey, my toddler has had a fever for three days with no other signs and symptoms. She's three. Should I be worried? So now that's a full sentence. Now I'm actually expressing concern to an AI bot and it says a fever is common and t hat one of the first things that it says in here is not only you know consult your doctor but consider roseola as a possibility. Boom, right there. Now I have something to point to and then it gives me some reference links and then I say, b ut I don't wanna click on those reference links. Is roseola dangerous or contagious? And it s tarts just answers me, Hey, it's common. It affects children by a ge two. It's caused by this type of virus. It is contagious but usually not. I'm like, okay, wait a minute. If I've had, now I'm having a conversation i n a search engine, but if I have had the chickenpox or if I've already had roseolaas a child, can I catch it again? What do I need to worry about here? It is possible to get roseola l ike illness more than once. However, it's important to note that it's caused by two common herpes viruses and once you've been infected you generate immunity, which is why you generally don't get infected twice. This is so helpful g iven me my reference links. I ask it if I will also have immunity and it says it's very likely you have lifelong immunity, both the chicken b ox and roseola. Should I be worried? And look at this, it's making me feel better. It's understandable to be concerned. However, it's important to remember that the fevers a re common symptom in children's illnesses, not necessarily a cause for alarms. Then I tell it thank you, I feel much better now. And it says you're welcome. Being a new parent can be overwhelming at times, but it's completely normal to have questions a nd concerns. I'm glad I could help ease your worries if you have other questions, just ask. And of course, in each one of these little chats it says Contact your doctor if you are still concerned after you read this. Now in the on the right, again I have asked the first questions about toddler signs and symptoms. N o days if I go to the next tab, I followed up and said, thank you, I'm a new parent, this is all new. What do I do? And what, what does Google produce? Like blogs about being a new parent, like totally doesn't understand the context of what I'm talking about. You know, it's like losing yourself after motherhood. This article< laugh> everybody take a minute and understand that p owerful impact that this tool h ead has guardrails, it has boundaries and certainly it can say some pretty weird things to you if you push it. You may have noticed i t in there it said six of six Microsoft put a limit on how, how much conversation you can have in a single prompt. So you can't draw it into a long love conversation with you when you're trying to like push it. This is a whole new world because what just happened was used typed into a search bar and it didn't produce you 10 links for you to sift through and decide what's most valuable to you. It produced the answer and it provided reference links, but they're not like ads, right? I don't see any logos. Th at's a whole different ballgame for advertisers and it's a whole different ballgame for he althcare a nd we should learn how to use It.

Tess: 33:39

And it, you know, it'll be great. Also once, I mean like I saw that almost all those reference links were dot orgs and so I know there are some other kind of Chat G P T arenas coming out in just the healthcare space that will have more direct links to those healthcare actual answers.

Devin: 33:57

References CDC.gov. Yeah. Then there's like healthlinehopkinsadvisor.org, kidscenter.org. Yeah,

Jerrod: 34:04

That was a powerful way to end it. Devin, thank you.

Deb: 34:07

Well, I wanna thank you guys all very much for all this information. It's been wonderful. And high five<laugh>,

Devin: 34:16

High five. Thank you team for being part of this and..

Tess: 34:17

Thanks for having us.

Devin: 34:18

....making healthcare better. Thank You.

Deb: 34:19

Happy simulating.

Arbor XR Tag: 34:22

Thanks to Arbor XR for sponsoring this week's podcast. Be sure to tune into their podcast"XR Industry Leaders" to hear from AR/VR, industry leaders in enterprise, education, and healthcare on Arbor XR.com and on all major streaming platforms.

Outro: 34:47

Thanks for joining us here at The Sim Cafe. We hope you enjoyed. Connect with us at www.innovativesimsolutions.com and be sure to hit that like and subscribe button so you never miss an episode of The Sim Cafe.