The Sim Cafe~

IMSH - Dr. Dimitrios Stefanidis and Cansu Akarsu

February 12, 2023 Deb Season 3 Episode 19
The Sim Cafe~
IMSH - Dr. Dimitrios Stefanidis and Cansu Akarsu
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode, Deb Tauber and Jerrod Jefferies interview Dr. Stefanidis and Cansu Akarsu. Dr. Stefanidis currently serves as the co-chair of the Research Summit. He has been coming to IMSH since 2004, Dr. Stefanidis is a genius and visionary. The Research Summit was very well attended this year with over 300 attendees.

Cansu Akarsu with Laerdal is looking at ways Laerdal has a goal for 2030 to save 1,000,000 lives each year! They are also looking at competency-based education. 


Innovative SimSolutions.
Your turnkey solution provider for medical simulation programs, sim centers & faculty design.

Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of anyone at Innovative Sim Solutions or our sponsors.

Innovative Sim Solution Ad:

Do you plan to design a new sim center, expand your existing simulation center or simulation program? Just give Innovative Sim Solution experts a call. We are a team of simulation subject matter experts and consultants. With over 50 years of experience designing simulation centers and programs, we are here to help you save time and money. Innovative Sim Solutions is your one-stop shop for all your simulation needs. Welcome to the Sim Cafe, a podcast produced by the team at Innovative Sim Solutions, edited by Shelly Houuser. Join our host, Deb Tauber and co-host Jarrod Jeffries as they sit down with subject matter experts from across the globe to reimagine clinical education and the use of simulation. So pour yourself a cup of relaxation, sit back, tune in, and learn something new from The Sim Cafe.

Deb:

Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe. And today we are here with our new co-host, Jarrod Jeffries. Jared, do you wanna say hi?

Jarrod:

Hello everybody.<laugh>

Deb:

And we are very thrilled to have Dr. Demitrios Stefanidis. Dr. Stefanidis, do you wanna tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?

Dr. Stefanidis:

Absolutely. Thank you so much, first of all for having me here. Uh, I'm very appreciative for that to be given the opportunity. I am, um, a general and bariatric surgeon, uh, and work, uh, in Indianapolis at Indiana University. I serve under the role of a Vice Chair of Education, um, at the Institution in the Department of Surgery and oversee our simulation center in that role. I used to be the medical director of our simulation center in Atri in Charlotte before I moved to Indianapolis.

Deb:

Yes. And they miss you there, says Don.

Dr. Stefanidis:

That's right. So I, I've been involved in society since I was a fellow in training. 2004, I believe is the first time I came. I don't think I've missed a meeting since because it's exciting. Yeah.

Jarrod:

Well, I mean, I think for good reason you've seen the maturity of these conferences develop over the years and now looking around, we we're in the middle of a healthcare simulation technology festival, which is extremely exciting than we would've ever thought. Something like that in 2004 when it happened.

Dr. Stefanidis:

It's a lot bigger than it ever has been. And a lot more exciting. Absolutely.

Jarrod:

Yeah. Certainly, certainly. Well, so we do have a few questions cuz I, we also are aware that you helped lead the research summit this year, is that correct?

Dr. Stefanidis:

Yes, Sir.

Jarrod:

Great. So first give us, and for, for the general population, what, what is the research summit? How often does it occur? Give us a little more detail and information about that.

Dr. Stefanidis:

So the society, um, from its inception, he has been wanting to, uh, encourage and promote research and simulation because any new field needs the research to advance and get stronger to, to bring forward evidence, right. That, um, uh, helps shape practices. So the, the first time the, uh, a recent summit was conducted was in the 2010, around that time.

Jarrod:

Mm-hmm.<affirmative>,

Dr. Stefanidis:

The society does it every several years, not an annual event.

Jarrod:

Mm-hmm.<affirmative>,

Dr. Stefanidis:

the second one was 2017. And, uh, this was the third one. So the research committee of the Society, which is currently led by D r. M ichelle Kelly, is u m, was tasked to organize the next season. S o i t's o ne o f t hese, s o I'm a member of t hat committee. O kay. And one of the retreats that we had, and w e're discussing what we should do.

Jarrod:

mm-hmm.<affirmative>,

Dr. Stefanidis:

This is like three years ago now. Yeah. Um,

Jarrod:

We're a much different place now,<laugh>.

Dr. Stefanidis:

Right, right, right. So, uh, it was right before the Covid pandemic, I guess. So I three throughout the idea that we could consider combining perhaps the research summit with, uh, development of evidence-based recommendations.

Jarrod:

mm-hmm.<affirmative>,

Dr. Stefanidis:

uh, because I do have a background in this, uh, I've been working with a surgical society for numerous years, uh, uh, developing guidelines. I used to chair the, uh, the guidelines development for a society that represents my clinical specialty. Yeah. So I thought, uh, it would be good to bring this into simulation and education because nobody has, has really done it that way. So the research committee was receptive and, uh, the board was even more receptive. So that's how this happened. So we said, okay, let's do it. We didn't know where it would take us. I dunno if you watched, uh, today's keynote address about, uh, embracing failure.

Jarrod:

mm-hmm.<affirmative>

Dr. Stefanidis:

Or taking risks, I guess. So certainly, like, let's take a risk and see where it takes us. So that's how this started. And of course there's been a lot of work leading into this because the, the process we follow, um, to do the evidence-based reviews, systematic reviews, and then come up with specific recommendations on specific topics. Um, it's honors, so it takes, takes a while. It takes a lot of effort. It takes a lot of people. And we had probably close to 200 people who participate in two, 200, probably somewhere there. We lost count at some point because every group had their own members. Uh, but we, we had a steering committee and the steering committee was led by myself. We had Sharon Murre WA staff, we had, uh, David Cook, we had, um, uh, Sharon Decker and Adam Chang at the beginning, um, of the process. And then of course we also engage methodologist, uh, who is very well versed in the methodology cuz we wanted to really follow the methodologist robust as we could to do this as as good as it gets. Right. Yeah. And, uh, we also engaged couple of our research fellows, uh, Amelia Co Mohammed calendar, who work with me to, because you do need a lot of work organization. And the society actually was really behind this because they supported this. There's a, it's a big expense to put something like this together. But, uh, they support the budget. Um, and, um, we were able to put together, we chose essentially after several discussions with the other steering committee members, uh, we chose 12 topics to focus on, which we thought were representative of the field. So

Jarrod:

How did you determine those 12 Topics?

Dr. Stefanidis:

So, uh, it was an i terative process O kay. Of constant discussion with the other steering committee members. U h, we felt, um, what are the main perhaps 1 2 domains, if you like, of simulation.

Jarrod:

mm-hmm.<affirmative>.

Dr. Stefanidis:

and how we perceive it. And, um, because we wanted to have recommendations on each of these aspects. Um, and we came up with 12 topics, could probably have come with 22 or, or et cetera, but we settled on 12. We, we had to keep it manageable. And then, um, based on those 12 topics, we thought, okay, who are the people we know who are really leaders in that, in those areas? And have some experience ideally of conducting systematic reviews. Because if they don't, it's a lot more involved teaching them to do it. So, and that's how we identified, uh, 24 leads because we assigned two leads in each group. Okay. Usually a man and a woman.

Jarrod:

mm-hmm.<affirmative>.

Dr. Stefanidis:

And, um, then we gave'em specific, uh, instructions, what we were after. But we were trying to do, and we had constant meetings every two weeks we had a, a call, a Zoom call. And today, yesterday, or when the summit was, was the first time that I saw some of those people in person. I was hiking to see, make sure they're real. Right. Uh, but, um, um, it worked out well. Well, it worked out well, to be honest, at the outset because I, I have experience with this process. I know it's hard. I know people don't like it because it's hard. Uh, it doesn't allow them, A lot of experts like to bypass the process a little bit because they experts, like, I just wanna say what I wanna say, but that process actually makes you think twice about it. It wants you to be transparent to avoid that expert bias if you like. Yeah. And that can be challenging for many. But, uh, we followed it, I think pretty well. And, uh, initially we said, okay, we have 12 groups. We don't know if they all will be able to move everything across and, but even if half of them do six groups is still great. Right. So we still have something eventually all 12 came through. Wow. Uh, which was, uh, which I would say, uh, I probably wasn't expecting that all 12 will go through. Yeah. But they did, which is great news. Uh, and it at the station to the quality of the people were put in charge of this.

Jarrod:

mm-hmm.<affirmative>,

Dr. Stefanidis:

But of course none of this would've happened if they didn't have dozens, uh, of people behind them.

Jarrod:

Mm-hmm.<affirmative>,

Dr. Stefanidis:

uh, some groups, uh, may have had an individual group may have had by looking at the number of people they listed in the presentations at the summit, 30 40 people. So that's not a small number of people because you do need a lot of people to review the evidence, et cetera.. So we structure the summit, we have, um, a reviewing team that will look at the evidence and an expert panel that would, uh, critically appraise that evidence and make the recommendations. That's the way the grade process that we followed works. So, and some groups had some overlap between the two groups. So we try to keep them separate to the, to the extent possible. Um, because that's how it works better.

Jarrod:

That's, and that's a lot of logistics going back and forth as well, especially from a global perspective, you know?

Dr. Stefanidis:

Yeah, you're right. Because a lot of the people who participated were international, not just U S b ased.

Jarrod:

mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Yeah.

Deb:

What was the most interesting thing that you guys discovered? Do you have something that you could speak to? Is, wow, this was,

Dr. Stefanidis:

So I think, uh, probably the most interesting thing and, and the wow factor is it is probably one of the first time, this is the first time this has been done, uh, uh, to really look critically at the evidence and say, okay, what can we learn from it? Or what can we say? Because the way this guidelines, processes, structure this to lead to actionable recommendations. And what that means is I can tell you who may be a simulation user, you should do this instead of that if you have an option. Okay. Right. Um, because that's what guidelines are supposed to do. And the reason you should do this versus that is because of this, this, this, and this. That's what this is supposed to be like, something we did identify, but that was part of the initial thinking as well. And I was, I personally was expecting this, is that a lot of groups, because in the beginning of this process, you develop the questions of interest. You say, as expert, you get the expert panel together and you ask them, can you define what are the most important questions that we should have an answer to in the area? Right. Um, and you structure the questions in a competitive way because when you do that, so meaning comparing something with something else, you can provide an actual recommendation because it either one will be better than the other or, or vice versa, or there won't be any difference. Does that make sense? That's how you structure that's a little bit different than traditional, uh, reviews of the evidence. So, so one of the things that did come out, which we knew it would, is that we do like good quality evidence to answer some of those questions. But that was also one of the main goals of, of that effort to point out to the community. We need answers to these questions that we think are important. Go and generate the evidence. So we have also created the research priorities, and that's how it ties with the summit, right? It's about research. So, um, in other words, we looked critically at the evidence, we identified the things we can confer judgments on and the things we cannot because we don't have the evidence and said, okay, can you guys, the community, the research community ramp up a little the, the efforts. And the next time we come back to do some of this, we have more full questions too. But still, we did have a number of, uh, good recommendations that will be coming out. We'll put this all in a publication we'll be sharing with the community.

Deb:

That'll be wonderful to look forward to. When do you think that will be released?

Dr. Stefanidis:

So I hope that within the next six months we can wrap it up. I know that it always takes longer when you work with people, but, uh, we'll do the best we can

Jarrod:

To AI is on its way to me, so maybe we know how to work with people so much in the future,

Dr. Stefanidis:

But it's all good. P eople a re, i t i s great,

Jarrod:

But I mean, six months, even if it's give or take, whatever, you know, a couple months, it's, that's such a large initiative to even get that over finish line. So absolutely. Congratulations on, on getting this set up and getting to move it. Thank you. Thank you. Because I, I even hearing from 17 was the last time you did it, were there any processes of best practices or any type of benchmarks that you wanted to hit from the previous ones? Or were you kind of more on a clean slate in trying to hit certain, um, goals for yourself?

Dr. Stefanidis:

Right. So, so the previous summits, they had all specific focus, um, areas. Um, and, um, the first, the very first summit did have a number of papers that came out that provided some recommendations for what to do in different areas, uh, for research. Um, we did find out that, um, despite that effort, a lot of questions still remain unanswered. But because of we were expecting this, one of the things we also did as part of the summit, we, the attendees of the summit, we brought them out into the, the 12 groups. We, in the, in an effort and hopes that we can stimulate some collaborative work to address those in priorities we identified. In other words, can we bring'em together to create projects, do the research.

Jarrod:

mm-hmm.<affirmative>.

Dr. Stefanidis:

To bring back the, the results we need to make some of, to address some of these important questions. And actually the society, you, you may be aware is, which was another ask we had to the society. And again, they were very responsive. They're raising funds to make some available for people to do studies, doesn't make sense. So it was the whole packet that we tried to accomplish.

Jarrod:

Very exciting. And, and so to, to sum that up though, is what does a successful research summit look like for you?

Dr. Stefanidis:

Right, right. So, so the, the success, eh, I would define as number one, getting to publish the recommendations. we've done the most of the work. We just need to put it in writing. Now. Getting, I think the other point of success will be to see some of the groups that we were formed in this summit to really move forward and do projects that,

Jarrod:

And they, and they have the autonomy to do so even after this business.

Dr. Stefanidis:

Y es. Yeah. Because again, the idea was can we cross-fertilize? Can we get you, me and a nd you kind of work together Y eah. On a n area of interest that we, based on this process, w e, w e think i s a priority that needs to be done. And let's see how we're gonna do this. And perhaps w e can get some funding to help us do i t through the society or through other methods. B ecause we h ad also, uh, speakers from the n ih O kay. U h, that, uh, prompted us, you know, to submit some more grants.

Jarrod:

mm-hmm.<affirmative>.

Dr. Stefanidis:

So we can advance the field.

Jarrod:

And all this information will be eventually available through for all members.

Dr. Stefanidis:

Absolutely. Yes. I mean, that's, that's the main goal.

Jarrod:

Absolutely. So, so first was, first measure of success was, you know, trying to wrap it up and put a little bow tie

Dr. Stefanidis:

On it. Do it. Yeah. We did it. It was great. We had 300<inaudible>. It was excellent. It was better attending than I thought it would be. So that was a really great success. And, um, as you said, the, there's more check marks coming. Certainly, yeah. Yeah. Which is the publication that will follow this. But again, we structure it in a way that, because previously the previous summits finished at the publication stage but this summit we've structured so that there's continuity because with the working groups doesn't make sense. Yeah. Whether it's gonna work out or not. We'll find out.

Jarrod:

You gotta try. You're not gonna find, you're not gonna know.

Dr. Stefanidis:

I have to take the risk and see my habits. Yeah. Yeah.

Deb:

Uh, is there anything you'd like to ask us or anything you are curious about or any, anyway, some of our listeners can help you and support you.

Dr. Stefanidis:

So, so mainly perhaps a message that, uh, if, if anybody in the community would be interested to engage, everything we've done is more about getting the world out right. And, and whoever wants to be engaged, just contact us. Okay.

Jarrod:

And how best to do so with that.

Dr. Stefanidis:

So, uh, probably you can email me personally, um, or through the society, contact the research committee, which who has been very engaged in this process of the society and the leadership. I'm a member of the committee as well, and then we can see what the interest of the individual people are and we can direct them appropriately to the different groups that are, are being formed currently.

Deb:

And we can put that in the show notes so that people can go ahead and look into that Sure. Where the contacts are. Yes, yes. And how they wanna get involved. Absolutely.

Dr. Stefanidis:

Yeah. Absolutely. I think that'd be a great next step.

Deb:

This has been wonderful and we really appreciate you. Thank you. All the things that you've done for the society, and we're very, very thankful.

Dr. Stefanidis:

Thank you.

Jarrod:

Thank you.

Dr. Stefanidis:

All right. Did I address your questions? Yes, you did. All right. Perfect.

Deb:

Okay. Happy simulating

Dr. Stefanidis:

<laugh>. Thank you. Bye-bye.

Interview bridge:

Thanks to Dr. Dimitrios Stefanidis for joining us in the IMSH podcast booth, discussing your summit project and working groups. Be sure to connect with him up next, Deb, and Jarrod, sit down with Jen Sue from Laerdal where she will be discussing her role in healthcare education.

Deb:

Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe. And I'm here your host, Deb Tauber, with my co-host Jarrod Jeffries. And today we have the honor of introducing and learning about Laerdal, Jen Sue. So Jen Sue, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about your role?

Jen:

My role at Laerdal is setting up healthcare education team in this team. We realize what is the future of healthcare education and, uh, what lals and our partners role is in that feature. So we work with a lot of vision and strategy development and, uh, some of the, you know, growth in our solutions, but also how we bring new solutions to the market. And we work with how our companies transition from providing input to really documenting learner outcomes.

Deb:

Thank you for all you do, and Jared has just spoken so highly of you. So, uh, um, Jared, you go ahead, set this up. Yeah, thanks

Jarrod:

For the time here. So obviously we know that Laerdal has been a big one of the legacy healthcare simulation partners, as we see from the presence here at IMSH and we've talking with a few others. But how have you seen the development and maturity of the industry and where Laerdol is today and where they want to be in the future?

Jen:

We play a strong role in bringing the community together. And I feel like, um, we also have a strong position in enabling our partners, not only professional association partners, but other companies here to bring solutions, you know, uh, and bring the, or increase the reach of solutions that they have, uh, globally. So we would like to work even closer with, uh, some of the, you know, companies that we see here. And we've been having a lot of meetings and learning more about them.

Jarrod:

Certainly. And, and I love that ambition to even, even being one of the more premier players as you are with the sponsorship, you're still looking for the next big thing and, and trying to be receptive towards the smaller companies and and partner with those that can really help save more lives as well.

Jen:

Absolutely. So, uh, Laerdal has a bold, uh, goal. Uh, our 2030 goal is to help save 1 million more lives each year. And, uh, we know that we won't be able to do it alone. We work with our partners and also we work with more companies going forward. And the other, um, progress that I would love to share with you all is that, uh, we will be working a lot more with, uh, competency based education and enabling our, uh, you know, solutions to document and, um, show the learner progress. So we will be playing more stronger in that area as well.

Jarrod:

So, and we, we chatted with Simax earlier who's working with er. Is it correct that you was working with Walter's Cooler?

Jen:

Absolutely.

Jarrod:

Fantastic. Yeah. I love, I love seeing those partnerships where you have, you know, synergies from both sides and, uh, you're able to really leverage the solutions and the scopes that you're, you've been used to. So, looking around, obviously there's, there's gadgets flying left and right. What, what has been your favorite thing about IMSH? What are, are you looking forward to? What is Laerdal bringing to the table this week? And, uh, tell us more about where you see simulation today.

Jen:

What we are bringing new, there are really, uh, a few new experiences. So we of course have a weak focus on, uh, equity, diversity, and inclusion. So you'll see that thread across more of most of our solutions. Uh, you know, at the booth, some of the exciting new developments is, uh, is around the virtual reality. So we have something at the booth called VR Clinicals.

Jarrod:

Mm-hmm.<affirmative>.

Jen:

And we've been, uh, investigating on how to best use VR technology in the past few years because we have, of course, uh, you know, quite a established virtual simulation product, uh, on screen visa for nursing with Walter School and, uh, with NLM content. But what we really discovered is that, uh, virtual reality will, um, enhance the learnings around multi patient prioritization and that immersive experience in a hospital ward. So we have developed, um, again, in the same partnership, pretty much a virtual clinical experience we call it, where students go through and, you know, the challenging clinical judgment processes, looking into, uh, multiple patients, prioritizing interacting with patients, but also being interrupted by other colleagues. And they have to make a decision, am I going to continue caring for who I have, you know, in the room or am I going to change room? So those are those moments of clinical judgment settings that we put them into. And the reception has been just fantastic. Uh, and that's the really the unique value proposition. And there's so much and so valuable. We are experiences and we've also been, you know, looking around and interacting and very much open and inviting others to come and thrive. Uh, and I think both, uh, solutions have a place, some of the things out there are more, you know, patient interaction in a kind of a shorter scenario. And that's also good, you know, we want to have more immersion even in, you know, one patient simulation, but we try to position it a little bit differently.

Deb:

I love how you, how you're doing that, because that does happen in healthcare. My daughter is a nurse in the intensive care unit and she says, you know, all of a sudden they'll come to her and say, oh, you have to get another patient, or you have to, and what do you, how do you transition that and how do you prioritize and how are you sure, I mean, she's been doing it for 10 years now, so she's comfortable, but I can imagine the newer nurses who are just coming into this field need to learn those skills before they get hit in the face with them and then leave the field.

Jen:

Yes. And this is the knowledge that National League for Nursing has brought into, uh, you know, this solution. Um, Laerdal and Walters, we are developing the technology together, but, uh, at the same time, uh, you know, those, um, clinical judgment moments as you have described here, this is what our partnership with the National League for Wise.

Jarrod:

Fantastic. And where and where do you see simulation in three to five years?

Jen:

Everything. Collecting data, obviously. Uh, we will be hopefully going to more standardized. Uh, that's my hope. Um, and, um, nothing will be able to exist without showing competency gain, uh, from the learners. And we will be playing stronger.

Deb:

Do you have any questions for us?

Jen:

No, I really appreciate being part of this. Uh, it's been a pleasure to, you know, listen to some of the podcasts and, um, I'm relatively new to this field as well and the community, and it's just such a nice welcoming environment. So thank you for inviting and thank you for spreading the wonderful, uh, happenings from this conference.

Deb:

Thank you time. Thank you so much for being a guest. Happy simulating.

Innovative Sim Solution tag:

Thanks to innovative Sim Solutions for sponsoring this week's episode.

Outro:

Thanks for joining us here at The Sim Cafe. We hope you enjoyed, connect with us at www.innovativesimsolutions.com. And be sure to hit that like and subscribe button so you never miss an episode of The Sim Cafe.