The Sim Cafe~ An interview with Dr. Kellie Dionne Bryant

Bio Sketch for Kellie Dionne Bryant DNP, WHNP, CHSE, FAAN

Dr. Bryant is currently the Assistant Dean of Clinical Affairs and Simulation and Associate Professor at Columbia school of nursing’s accredited Helene Fuld Health Trust Simulation Center. Dr. Bryant has over 20 years of teaching experience and 10 years of experience as a Women’s Health Nurse Practitioner. Throughout her career she has become an expert in the field of simulation through her experience with designing simulation centers and implementing simulation programs for two of the top-rated nursing schools in the country. In her current role she oversees the day-to-day operations and implementation of simulation-based education for all the graduate nursing and advance practice nursing students. Additional responsibilities include implementing initiatives that promote diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) for students and the surround community.

Dr. Bryant serves on many national and international committees focused on simulation and DEI. At Columbia University, she was appointed co-chair of the campus-wide antiracism taskforce for community service working. She is currently the co-chair of the Society for Simulation in Healthcare’s media and communication committee and appointed member of the DEI workgroup. She is serving her second year on the CDC funded Nurse-Led Vaccine Confidence Advisory Committee. Dr. Bryant is currently on the executive board for the Greater NYC Black Nurses Association including serving as the liaison for the NYC Black and Latinx Providers committee.

Dr. Bryant received her Associates degree in nursing from Hudson Valley Community College. She continued her education at Stony Brook University where she received her Bachelor’s in Nursing and a Master’s Degree as a Women’s Health Nurse Practitioner. Lastly, she received her Doctorate in Nursing Education from Case Western Reserve University.

Twitter: https://twitter.com/kells333
LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelliebryant/ 
Email:  Kellie.Bryant@gmail.com

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Transcript

Intro: 0:05

Welcome to The Sim Cafe, a podcast produced by the team at Innovative Simsolutions edited by Shelly Houser. Join our host Deb Tauber, as she sits down with subject matter experts from across the globe to reimagine clinical education and the use of simulation. So pour yourself a cup of relaxation, sit back, tune in and learn something new from The Sim Cafe.

Deb: 0:38

Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe. Today, we are truly blessed to have Dr. Kellie Bryant. Dr. Bryant is currently the assistant Dean of Clinical affairs and Simulation and associate professor at Columbia school of Nursing accredited Helene Fold Health Trust Simulation Center. Dr. Bryant has over 20 years of teaching experience and 10 years of experience as a women's health nurse practitioner. And many of you are familiar with Dr. Bryant's work. So thank you so much for being on. Would you like me to call you Dr. Bryant or Kellie?

Kellie: 1:16

Kelly is just fine.

Deb: 1:18

Perfect. Thank you. And you may call me Deb.

Kellie: 1:20

<laugh>. Okay. Well, I just wanna first say thank you, Deb. I follow you on LinkedIn and I see all your wonderful podcasts and I thought myself, one day I'm hoping that I'll be, have a chance to be on the podcast. So thank you for the invitation.

Deb: 1:32

Oh, thank you for being on and thank you for all the work you do.

Kellie: 1:35

Yeah.

Deb: 1:36

You make a difference. Really make a difference. And I'm thrilled to have you, we're gonna get into our first question, which is why don't you share how you got into simulation, share how you stepped into the space.

Kellie: 1:48

Oh, so that was 2008. And I didn't know anything about simulation. Actually, when I, I had my first job, I worked with someone who was the chair at the school of nursing and she became the Dean at another university and they had this grant where they had three Sim men, and they were in a box for, I would say,<laugh> a year or so. And nobody knew what to do with them. And she thought of me because when I worked with her, I was always that techy person, like anytime somebody had a problem with their iPhone or whatever, I was always that person you come to to, to try to fix it. So she actually thought of me. Um, they received a grant and the grant was to really just get'em out of the box and use them. Everybody was scared to touch it. Everything was expensive, we don't wanna break it. So I went, I started in 2008, um, at New York College of Technology one day a week, just getting them out the box, setting it up. It was myself and an it person. And then we slowly started incorporating into the curriculum. I think it started with med surge. Then we started doing some other scenarios and that was really my start. And within a year, NYU had a position for a full-time person in simulation. And remember, this is back when there wasn't a lot of books, there was hardly anything on simulation. So I really started with trial and error. And, um, when I saw the job for NYU, I said, you know what? I really like the simulation field. So I went for, uh, that job at NYU. It was a full-time job. And it was, this was again 2009 and this was taboo, but they had a curriculum that was 50% simulation, which was everybody thought we were crazy. That is way too much simulation. Um, we had to get buy in not only from the students, but the faculty. So, um, yes, that's it. I went straight from that one day, a week job to NYU where we did 50% simulation and started with educating, you know, the instructors. And then we used it for simulation and we, and you know, that was, I did that for about six or seven years. And then I thought I wanted to get out of simulation<laugh>. And at the time I forgot to mention they were in the process of building a brand new simulation center. So I had, I had a great experience of being there firsthand to really help design it and build the simulation center. And then when it opened and again, training new set of faculty and it, it was amazing to see that we went from students being very hesitant and not sure about a 50% simulation curriculum to, you know, years later we need more simulation. We want more, this is really helpful when it works. And then, like I said, I thought I wanted to get outta simulation. And I put my resume in at Columbia thinking I was just going for a part-time job. And the Dean called me and said, we got something better for you.<laugh> we're building a new simulation center. Do you wanna come on board and help us build ours from scratch and start their curriculum? And I have to say it was, it was a pleasant surprise. I was going for another job. Didn't get it. So I said, when one door closes another one opens and then I was okay, well, let me lemme try this job. It's always fun in the beginning.<laugh> um, so I've been here since 2017, 2016, 2017 it's a year or two start planning, designing. Uh, we opened up in 20. We actually opened up in 2017. I was here in 2016 and I've been here ever since. And I absolutely love it. I fell in love with simulation all over again and, and I'm glad that, uh, I didn't get that other job.<laugh>

Deb: 5:15

That's great. And you guys, I just understand you got accredited from the site.

Kellie: 5:20

We did! Re cently.

Deb: 5:21

Congratulations.

Kellie: 5:22

Thank you. A lot of work. So yes, we were very proud of that accomplishment. We did go for provisional and then within a year we said, oh, I think we're ready. And we put in forward and we were able to achieve, uh, accreditation and education.

Deb: 5:37

Yeah. And I love that step system that you can go for provisional. And then when you feel more confident, you've got all your data metrics. You can, you know, move on and get fully accredited. So once again, congratulations on that.

Kellie: 5:49

Thank you.

Deb: 5:50

Let's get into our second question, which is, can you share with us your favorite or most meaningful simulation story with our listeners?

Kellie: 6:01

Oh, there's so many Deb<laugh>, Um, I'll start with one that always sticks out in my memory. So like I said, when we first did the simulation, I, you know, a lot of students weren't really, they weren't really fond of simulation. They'd rather have more time in a clinical setting cause they always felt like they were missing out and I'll never forget. I logged into my LinkedIn account and I had a message waiting for me from a student. And, um, I can't say I remember the student cause I've had a lot of students over the years, but it's, it started something with when I was at the institution. I hated simulation<laugh> I didn't think it was useful. I wasn't one of those supporters of simulation, but I have to write you. I had to find you and write you to tell you a story. And basically the student said they just started their first RN position in emergency room department. They were still in orientation with their preceptor and they had a patient come in, I think with, uh, di uh, diabetic keto, acidosis DKA, and the student knew how to take care of that patient. And the preceptor turned to the student said, I've precepted a lot of students. And nobody knew how to take care of, of a scenario like that. How did you know all the steps and what needed to be done as someone that's brand new? And the student said it was because I had a DKA simulation. And the student said at that moment, which is not a student now as the RN, I realize how important, how significant simulation was. I didn't appreciate it when I was in class with you. But now that I'm working, I have a newfound respect for simulation and how it prepared me for the role that I'm in today. So I would say that was probably the first aha moment where I was like, wow,<laugh> students get it. It's really working. If you don't mind me telling a second story. Uh, because I think it's, to me just as important, I'm also a big advocate for on Narcan training for our students. Uh, we have a very high opioid overdose, uh, rate here where I live, uh, and work. And so all of our students go through a Narcan training, our simulation center. We go through a module. We teach'em how to use their Narcan to save people's lives, how to recognize an overdose. And we've had nine students come back and save somebody's life so far. So when you could see something that you've taught them at your simulation center and it actually impacted saved somebody's life, not once, but nine times, I would say that's another moment that I'm proud of and, and realize that simulation definitely can impact health outcomes and patient outcomes.

Deb: 8:22

Those are great stories. Thank you. Thank you. Now, Kelly, why don't you tell me a little bit about what happened at Columbia during the pandemic? Cause I think it's interesting to see, to hear all the different things that people were doing and uh, you know, real time, not waiting till something's been peer reviewed by two journals to it's just a story. What happened to you guys?

Kellie: 8:47

Ooh, that was rough because when it first occurred, remember we were with the epicenter. I mean, it started in California, but New York, we got hit, we got hit hard. And matter of fact, the first case came to the hospital across the street, Columbia Presbyterian. We jumped into action right away. So I don't even know if we went through isolation. The first thing we did is remember, nobody had PPE. We had a ton. So we donated all of our PPE, our N 95. We even donated our, uh, anesthesia machines cause they were using them, I guess, as ventilators. And one point hooking up two people, we donated our ventilators. So I was here donating all the supplies to the hospital. That was the first thing. The second thing I remember was working with the hospital to do some simulations, to help educate people on how to conduct codes differently so that the people conducting the codes, weren't gonna be, you know, exposed to COVID, which we know they're still a risk exposed, but minimizing their exposure. So I am OB GYN. So I'll be honest. I know nothing about codes and all that. So going over there and, and teaching these code scenarios where, you know, you're not you're bag masking someone differently, you're resuscitating someone differently and you're checking to make sure the PPEs, you know, put on properly before they go in a room. And we're, you know, coming up with protocols on the fly and oh, that didn't work and we need to revise. So that was probably the second thing I can remember participating in. And then the next thing was we needed nurses and we had a lot of nurses in different areas. So I remember going over there and we had a huge training to train nurses that were in the, or, or in, we have an eye Institute. They were in the eye Institute nurses that basically needed to refresher on their me med surg skills because they were being redeployed to med-surg units. So we went over to the hospital, was all our equipment we had to do like physical assessment, 101 training. We did, uh, medication administration review. We did IV and PPE training for enormous amount of nurses in a short timeframe. We literally there from nine to five, just one group after another, after another. And literally right after the training, they were being deployed to these med surgery units to take care of patients, uh, with COVID. So we did that. And then we went to our students, our students wanted to participate. So we brought our students in volunteer, the ones that wanted to do it. And they became, um, nurse technicians. I think it was a new role that they created to help the nurses on the floor and healthcare providers. So we did a training with them. And again, it was almost like assembly line. We had station different rooms and our simulation educators were excellent. They came in and remember, we didn't have a vaccine. We didn't really know too much about COVID. We were exposing ourselves. I remember going into the hospital and going past the trailers that, you know, unfortunately had, uh, some of the deceased people and just that image alone, going to the hospital. I remember my family telling me, why are you doing this? Please do not my uncle crying. Why are you going to work bill? You could stay home. Why are you choosing to do this? But our team decided most of our team to come in and do this. So we had to train them, um, educated the nurses. And then what was next? Oh, I volunteered in a, it was called a Covid fever clinic at the time, but literally it was a COVID testing center where, um, we were testing patients that had cancer or autoimmune, uh, diseases, transplant patients, or test them for COVID so that they could get their chemotherapy or their, their treatments. And that, that was eye opening because the stories I'm thinking, I'm just there performing COVID tests and calling people to tell them that they're positive and finding out, well, what am I supposed to do? I remember one person I live in I'm renting a room. How do I tell the other people that I have COVID uh, oh, I just told them they kicked me out. I have nowhere to go. I have stage 4 cancer. I am literally urinating in a bucket because they don't want me to use the bathroom. I have no means of getting food. These are all the things that I'll be honest. I was not prepared for. I thought I was just giving a test result. So started doing that. Then we turned into a research center. So we were, I started participating in the plasma study where we were getting plasma for people who survived COVID 19 and using our antibodies to help save the lives of people who were really sick in the hospital. So I did that for a while.<laugh> and then it turned into, you know, as we got the vaccine, we, we educated 120, some students pre licensure students on how to administer the COVID vaccine. And we had them out in the community. And again, we were one of the hardest hit communities out here in Washington Heights, and we were doing it for the community. We were in the armory, giving out hundreds and hundreds of vaccines a day. I was over there supervising them, and then we moved into the schools. So that's, that's just a little bit of what we've been doing.<laugh>

Deb: 13:17

Just to thank you for everything you did. Thank you for your, for, you know, all the, the differences that you made in that area. And sharing that with us. Kelly, where do you see the future of simulation going?

Kellie: 13:29

Oh boy, I see. Obviously the technology is just gonna get better and better and better. Even these new mannequins. Now we got mannequins that have facial expressions and can change colors. So I think that will continue to improve. And I think we're also gonna see a lot more when it comes to extended reality and using that not only for just teaching clinical skills, but I think we're start using it too. For more complicated scenarios. I'm excited about seeing it used for racial empathy, putting it on and being in the body of someone else and trying to get a feel for what that might feel like. Even though you'll never know what it's like to walk in somebody's shoes, but maybe giving them a little glimpse of some of the discrimination and things that people feel. I also would, I don't know if this is where it's going, but this is where I'd like to see simulation go. We just had an interprofessional day last week. Um, we really need to start working more together with the different disciplines. It was such an eyeopening experience when you have, we had dental and nursing and PT and OT. We had public health and social work nutrition, geneticists altogether to, uh, uh, go through escape room and they enjoyed it so much. And they learned about each other's profession. We didn't even, they didn't even realize they were taking some of the same courses. They didn't realize some of the skills that all these different professions, um, have in common. And so I think we need to have more of those opportunities to use simulation, to bring all these different disciplines together. You know, not just when we work in the hospital, cuz I'll be honest. When I went to school, I didn't know anything about OT, social, all that, because we, we study in these silos, but then we're expected to work together in these hospital settings. We need to start having our education together and not just waiting until we're in the same clinical setting. So I'd love to see us do more of that with simulation.

Deb: 15:11

No, I totally agree. I think, uh, there needs to be a lot more interprofessional in recognizing what other roles and how we can work together and a much more systems integrated approach.

Kellie: 15:21

Absolutely. Yeah. And more research too. You know, we know simulation works. We add all the research to say and improves their confidence and skills, but how has it affected patient outcomes? You know, let's tie that to, to that. I think that's another area where I'd love to see more being done in these years. How long have I been? It's one, 2008. The field of simulation has just grown and grown and grown and I'm just so happy to see where it's, where it is today. And, and I'm excited to see where it'll be five years from now.

Deb: 15:51

Yeah. Thank you for your pioneer work and simulation.

Kellie: 15:54

Thank you. Thank you so much again for having me.

Deb: 15:57

Now, Kellie, if our listeners wanna get ahold of you, where would they do that?

Kellie: 16:03

Um, so I'm on a, quite a few social media platforms. I'm on Twitter, under Kells,@KELLS333. I'm also on LinkedIn, under Kellie Bryant and it's Kellie with the K E L L I E not Y and then I'm also, I could be reached by email. Um, my name Kellie.Bryant,(BRYANT)@gmail.com.

Deb: 16:25

We'll put that stuff in the show notes. Why don't you talk a little bit, you're doing so many studies and so many things around research. Is there anything you're really excited about? You'd like to share with us,

Kellie: 16:34

Oh boy one. I don't know if you wanna call it exciting, but it goes back to the basics. We're actually looking at standard precautions of just hand hygiene and how that can affect patient outcomes, where we're developed a simulation activity where we're going on the floors and we're doing this module, uh, computer based actual scenario on just when is appropriate to wash your hands. And when do you put that sharps in the sharp container and you know, all of that and using that as a way of enforcing and you know, educating our nurses on the floor is about standard precautions, almost like a refresher. And then seeing what that impact has on different things, such as infection rates in the hospital and how often nurses, um, perform hand hygiene, do they perform at the appropriate times? So again, maybe not exciting, you know, but so important to go back to just,

Deb: 17:26

Yeah,

Kellie: 17:27

Cautions.

Deb: 17:27

I remember when I was working in the, in the ER and, and actually I would bring it into simulation that if someone forgot to wash their hands, I would actually say"code suds".

Kellie: 17:38

<laugh> just, oh, I love it!

Deb: 17:39

J ust remind t hem like, you know, you wanna say it in a nonthreatening way, c uz really once again, you're my colleague. I don't w anna tell y ou, t ell you w hat to do, but Hey,"code suds", right? Simple, easy. Let's do it. And

Kellie: 17:52

We know that's that one simple procedure can bring down infection rates in a hospital. So yes. Very important.

Deb: 18:01

All right. Well this has been wonderful. I appreciate your time and your contributions to simulation. Will you be at an INASCL.

Kellie: 18:08

Yes, I will.

Deb: 18:09

I have the, I will see you in Wisconsin.

Kellie: 18:11

It's about the study I just told you about.

Deb: 18:14

Excellent. All right. Well thank you so much and happy simulating.

Kellie: 18:19

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 18:26

Thanks for joining us here at The Sim Cafe, we hope you enjoyed connect with us www.innovativesimsolutions.com and be sure to hit that like and subscribe button. So you never miss an episode of The Sim Cafe.