The Sim Cafe~ An Interview with David Shablak

David has been in simulation since he was young, simulating crash scenes for search and rescue in the Civil Air Patrol. From there he has has a wide range of careers that all gave him pieces to the puzzle that was put together about ten years ago when he entered the medical simulation industry. His first 8 years were with Wright State University in the CIMER simulation lab serving the emergency medicine residency as well as the Boonshoft School of Medicine. That lab also served local hospitals, EMS, nursing schools and others. CIMER had a large focus on inter professional simulations that brought all of these learners together. From there he accepted a position with Orbis Education. His primary partner site is with Xavier University ABSN program. He is an avid mentor and source of information in the Simulation community, and presents at many of the conferences in the industry. David was also one of the first 25 people to achieve the CHSOS-A certification from the Society of Simulation in Healthcare. 

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SimulationTek
Sim Geeks podcast- https://simgeekspodcast.podbean.com/
LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidshablak/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/simgeekspodcast/

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Transcript

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Intro: 0:34

Welcome to The Sim Cafe, a podcast produced by the team at Innovative Simsolutions, edited by Shelly Houser. Join our host Deb Tauber, as she sits down with subject matter experts from across the globe to reimagine clinical education and the use of simulation. So pour yourself a cup of relaxation, sit back, tune in and learn something new from The SimCafe.

Deb: 1:08

Welcome to another episode of The Sim Cafe. Today, we are truly blessed to have David Shablak and we are actually live at the conference in Wisconsin. David has really been an inspiration to me. I was blessed to have met him virtually over the last year and he really helped me get my podcast started. And so he has his own podcast, which is called, This Old Mannequin and I can't help, but just kind of get a smile on my face when I think about how funny the name is and how cool it is and how many people have been able to learn from their podcast. And it it's just fantastic. So, David, why don't you tell our guests a little bit about yourself?

David: 1:55

Well, first thank you for having me on board and, uh, you know, we are live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin for INASCL uh, 22' and, uh, it was nice to finally actually meet you cuz we've been talking for quite a long time, but never actually gotten to meet in person. So yeah, I've been in, uh, simulation for about, uh, a little over 10 years now. Uh, I was in emergency medicine residency for first eight and now I'm in nursing simulation, which brings me to the INASCL conference cuz it's the one centered around nursing simulation. Uh, I've got a varied background where I've, uh, uh, I I've represented apple and Sony and I, uh, was in search and rescue when I was younger and all of that really comes to play in simulation. Every one of my weird experiences and background comes to play in, uh, simulation and uh, makes me so passionate about what, what I do.

Deb: 2:47

Thank you. Thank you. And I, when I look at you and when I talk to you, all I can think is generous. I mean you are truly so very generous. If you have a problem, David has a solution or he can find one for you. So I thank you for that. And I thank you on behalf of so many people that have learned from you, uh, in advance and let's get into our first question and that is how did you get into simulation? Please share your journey and how you actually got into it because we all have come from such different backgrounds and to hear people's stories is, is isn't a, a gift.

David: 3:28

So yeah, like I alluded to, I, uh, I have a very unique background. Um, I've been in computers and sales and search and rescue and uh, I actually restored an armored vehicle for the air force museum. So anybody that goes to the air force museum in Dayton, Ohio, uh, the only armored vehicle there, I helped restore. So I I've got a lot of very unique talents, but uh, as one does we get on with our lives and you know, I was in retail and things like that and having kids and one day somebody tapped me on the shoulder and said, you know, that thing we used to do as kids and that was civil air patrol in the search and rescue, uh, he says, I get paid for that now. And I was like, no, that's not a job. Uh, which is usually what we're all doing to try to get somebody in sim is convince them that yes, it's a real job. And uh, it kind of went on from there. He, uh, explained it to me. He had me come over and look at what he does and we formulated a plan and a pathway. Um, I got my EMT, my paramedic and things like that. Um, and then in my third term in medic school, uh, a simulation job popped open and I was able to just cure that. Um, and I've been here ever since.

Deb: 4:36

That's, that's a great story and you are right. Somebody will tell you about simulation and you're kind of struggling to understand it. And then when you actually see it, you're like, yeah, this is, this is it. This is, this is a way to learn. It's a vehicle for learning and it's a great vehicle. David, why don't you share with our listeners your favorite or most impactful simulation story that you have?

David: 5:01

Like I said, I, I worked for an emergency medicine residency, so that is, you know, future ER, docs, people who have left medical school and they're getting their specialized training for, to be an ER doc. And that eight years was simply inspiring. Made me the person I am now. I learned everything from my former boss and, uh, the peers that were there. Um, but one of the stories that always rings with me was, um, we had a resident that did an OB rotation and was just there as an observer. Not if anything went bad, there were other people that were supposed to step in and things went very, very bad. And my resident had to step in and perform a procedure. They had only read about in a book they were not prepared for. They were not, did not know the pitfalls. And since then, uh, since that point on my boss, who is, like I said, the smartest person I've ever met, made a simulation and it centered around a local vein catheterization. So we would prepare our residents before they went. And it was very important. One year later it happened again and that resident came back and they said, I still had to change my shorts afterwards, but I was more prepared. I knew the pitfalls because with every procedure there's one or two real big ones and everything worked out and everything worked out originally for the first resident, but it was so impactful to me that they came back and we have a lot of stories like that. Like, you know, I try to not make a big deal about what I do and you know, it's okay. This is part of the learning process. And I have residents that come back, go, no simulation made me who I am and it, it, it fills my heart and inspires me to what I do. I love it.

Deb: 6:49

I love it. Right. I, I would, I would totally agree. And David, I think you're one of the, you know, kind of up and coming stars and simulation, um, just from your wealth of knowledge and your generosity to share it with others. Um, you know, I'm gonna ask you a question. How did you, and, and I didn't tell you that I was gonna ask you this, so I hope I'm not throwing you off too much. How did you guys start the, this old mannequin? Like what was the Genesis of that? Like you're just sitting around having a beer.

David: 7:17

So it's interesting, actually, I think you're meaning, Sim Geek's podcast. U h, This Old Mannequin I do on my own, but Sim Geek's podcast, u m, was a n, so I was thinking about podcasts are getting very popular and even back then we started about three or four years ago. U m, I had the idea kicking around and William Belk, who is my co-host. U m, he and I met on Instagram. We met as digital friends and we were both inspired creationists and w e're i nto making things and all that. And so we would always s hare stories and it was San Antonio. IMSH we were in the very bowels of, u h, San Antonio conference center doing a side tertiary class. And he said, we need to start a podcast. U m, and it was like, oh my God, I've been thinking that too. So it was just, you know, that was where the idea was born. And then we really wanted to think about our format and how we wanted to do it. And really, you know, we try to bring as much knowledge to the industry and we try to showcase others who are so smart and so talented in our industry. And because my favorite thing about our industry is how sharing we are. You know, you say how generous I am, it's all of us, we a re all supporting each other and that's how we grow. And it's my favorite part of something that I have so many favorite parts of m any....

Deb: 8:40

Favorite parts of<laugh> very cool. Very cool. How long has, uh, The Sim Geeks podcast been going?

David: 8:48

Well? Um, it wasn't right after IMSH San Antonio. I believe it's about three years now. So we've been going

Deb: 8:57

Cause that would've been

David: 8:58

18', I believe so. Yeah. Yeah.

Deb: 9:01

18.' Yeah. It's uh, listened to, by a lot of people you can learn a lot of things from it. And, um, and thank you. Mm-hmm<affirmative> so David, where do you see simulation going? Do you have any, you know, where do you, where do you think it's gonna go? And I know that there's no right or wrong answer. I always just think it's interesting to see people's perspectives. Who've been in the industry for a little bit.

David: 9:24

So, uh, the number one term or the number one word that comes to my mind when you say that is just more all, it's just, it's growing in leaps and bounds. We've always had a growing industry. Um, you know, I've seen it grow immensely over the last 10 years, but right now it's growing bigger than I've ever seen it. So we're coming, you know, I don't know if we're out of it or whatever of this situation, this pandemic situation we're in right now, but you just look at how many jobs are being posted just in SIMOPS specialists, not even educators, not even talking about how many, um, new sim centers are breaking ground that I've been taught, told about just this week. Um, so the most exciting thing is how much more need we're gonna have, how much we are growing and how we need to just keep sharing, keep expanding and how to, how to lure not lure is the wrong word, but how to bring more people into our industry, which is a challenge.

Deb: 10:27

Yeah, I agree. And, and I have to say, you know, to hear that it's encouraging, I, I know that most people know that Innovative Simsolutions, uh, does three things. So one, we have this free podcast that we can offer to our listeners, which is, you know, just a, kind of the highlight of my week when I interview somebody. Um, number two, we have courses online that teach you about simulation courses and telehealth valuable courses. And I also work with Farooz can support, and we do consulting for our organizations that are interested in starting simulation. We also have some, uh, experts in a AR/ VR/ IR, so that when you're going to make that decision for your organization, you don't wanna pick something that's going to be a paperweight for your C-suite to use. So we've done some research and, you know, I actually put on the headsets and went around to some of the different booths and really learned about virtual reality and, and how it actually feels because when you put those goggles on the first time and I'm, I'm gonna be very honest with you. I was actually kind of scared. And I had the person who was in there. I was like, could I sit down? Because I just felt like, I didn't know where I was and I was gonna fall and look like a goofball. And so, um, the first time I sat down and then by the, by the second, third, I think it takes like six or seven times in VR to really get to feel comfortable with it, where you're walking around and you're like, oh yeah, I get this. What would you, what do you think? What are your thoughts on that?

David: 12:00

I mean, it's a new modality and i t it's, nobody could say when they saw a mannequin, the first time they knew what to do and they knew how to use it. I t, it is a very new a nd burgeoning and exciting modality. And it's, it's a lot of fun and finding its place in sim is the unique challenge. Like you said, you w anna make sure that you are, you know, finding a company that solves your problems, and it's a solution to coin y our, y our own company's name. There it's to find t his solution to the problem or the unique challenge that you a re trying to give it. And so rather than like you said, you can spend a whole lot of money on a product that is cute and fun, but is it meeting your learning objectives? Is it helping your learners? And that's the unique challenge,

Deb: 12:47

Right? What problem are you trying to solve? So if you can figure that out first, what's the problem. Then you can go ahead and look at the different solutions as I'm gonna quote from Bob Armstrong. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, do I need a pencil? Do I need a pen? Do I need chalk? Do I need paint? What do I need? And, and I think that, you know, once again, we need to be very mindful as we go into this area of, um, simulation, mindful,

David: 13:12

Mindful, and open-minded because we all have our strengths. We all have the things we're used to. And, you know, they always say, well, when you're a plumber, the wrench is the, the right tool for the job for everything. And you need to be very open-minded and see how it, these skills can actually help your learners because our learners are all that matters. They're the ones that, that we are here for the ones that pay our paychecks. But we're the, we're the ones that they're the ones that we are serving is our learners. That's it.

Deb: 13:42

Right? No, you're right. David and love that open mind thinking. I remember when I was first introduced to simulation and, uh, they, they brought the HPS, a high fidelity simulator. And I remember thinking to myself, the simulator's gonna know that I don't know anything it's gonna know, and that everybody, everybody who I work, with's gonna know, I don't know anything. And, you know, to really learn about simulation and recognize that virtual reality is the same, uh, learning curve. Although we've had a trajectory, that's been a lot quicker because of the pandemic, you know,

David: 14:14

Virtual Sims the same way. Yeah. I mean, virtual sim didn't, I mean, it existed, but not like it does now. And there's a huge need. There's a lot of people that wanna approach it, think they may know how to approach it, and you wanna make sure you're using those unified methods, the proven methods that work.

Deb: 14:33

And David, do you have any stories from the, the pandemic of things that you did or things that you learned that were impactful to you? Uh, you know, what you did at your organization, anything you wanna share?

David: 14:44

So the only thing I have is, is regrets of not spending more time innovating and, and really pushing the boundaries. Because I, I I've said this before that I, I wish I I've seen so many of our peers really take this time and Excel like virtual you with virtual simulation. And a lot of the other peers, you know, I can't meet in person. Well, how are we going to meet that learning objective? And I, I, I wish I would've pushed more. I mean, I did some and things like that. We, we had for the podcast, we did our cleaning and disinfection because, you know, we were seeing the need and nobody wanted to engage on it for actual research. Not that we did, but we saw the need, we did it. But, um, I, man, it, it's still there. The opportunity's still there to innovate and push and be better at what we are. And, you know, to your point is learning the different modalities, learning what's new out there being accepting, opening to it and figuring out where it actually fits in, not where it seems like it might, but where it all actually benefit our customers, which are our learners.

Deb: 15:45

Well, and I think I was given a gift, uh, with, you know, being, having the opportunity during the pandemic to reach out to people that I wouldn't have normally reached out to. I'd been like, they're too busy, but many of'em are sitting around. And so I'd be like, Hey, would you be interested at all in being a guest on The Sim Cafe and generosity, once again, generosity mm-hmm<affirmative> uh, David, do you have anything else you'd like to leave our listeners with today?

David: 16:14

Just you're not alone. That's one thing I've been harping on is you're not alone. Network help each other, keep sharing, keep, you know, inspiring all of us to do what we do. I mean, half the reason I network so much half the reason I do like the things you give me credit for is I want to be inspired by the people I see every day. I want to meet more people. You're gonna come up with something that I would never have thought about and I want to, you know, try to help our entire industry. Yeah. So keep at it. Thank You.

Deb: 16:41

Thank you so much. Now, David, if our listeners wanna get ahold of you, what's the best way.?

David: 16:48

So I I'm, I'm definitely out there and available. I'm on most social media platforms, um, either by simulation tech and that's TK, which is my side business. Um, and that's where I house This Old Mannequin on the YouTube channel, uh, or there's the same Geeks podcast. And I'm on most, every channel with William Belk, who is my co-host.

Deb: 17:07

Excellent. Excellent. Well, is there anything you wanna ask me?

David: 17:13

So what do, where do you see simulation going?<laugh> see, I'm gonna turn the questions you ask back onto you.

Deb: 17:21

I, I don't know. I think, uh, the next, you know, everything in the world has been so turned upside down that right now, I'm just trying to get through one day at a time. I think that, um, virtual reality is here to stay. Um, like I said, at first I was really, I didn't think that it would work, but now that I'm seeing it. And like I said, by yesterday, when I was able to actually get in the headset, I communicated with the virtual patient using the same skills and technique that I would, if I was at the bedside, like, you know, mm-hmm,<affirmative> being eye level with the patient, making sure that I'm introducing myself, I'm acknowledging that they're here, making sure that I'm calling them by the name that they want to be called by that I'm explaining things that I do that. And even though it's really hard to do, tried to use the, um, you know, tried to put my hand on the, on the virtual realities, hand, different modalities, different modality, but how do we, you know, I think some of those things are gonna need to be flushed out in simulation. So I, so I guess if you're asking my question, I see virtual reality as something that's going to be utilized more, although there's such a place for, you know, the simulations that we're doing now with, um, simulators. I, I love the products that akin the haptic features that they have. So, um, you know, I think that there's a lot of opportunities.

David: 18:56

So I'm gonna go back to the very first part of what you said, and you said, you're getting your footing and you're trying to see what's out there. And I completely disagree with what you said. The reason I do is I watched you for a very long time. You are a sponge, you are soaking it all in and processing, which is why you brought up virtual reality, which is why you brought up akin and things like that. What you're doing is you're fitting it in and you are trying to learn. And that's what you do well is you are out there and you are trying to soak up the knowledge and see where it applies. And so I wouldn't say you're getting your footing. You are just simply being a good educator and soaking up the knowledge and seeing how you can benefit other educators. So that's how I would word it because the outside looking in, that's what I see.

Deb: 19:43

Thank you, David. You are just too kind. In fact, I probably won't even be able to get out of the convention center because my head's too big.<laugh>, It's what we do. All right. Well, thank you listeners and happy simulating.

David: 19:58

Thank you for your time. Have a great day and enjoy simulating.

AD: 20:02

The Sim Cafe would like to thank Innovative Simsolutions for this week's sponsorship. Innovative Simsolutions for all your simulation needs.

Outro: 20:17

Thanks for joining us here at The Sim Cafe, we hope you enjoyed. Connect with us at www.innovativesimsolutions.com and be sure to hit that like and subscribe button. So you never miss an episode of The Sim Cafe.